Black Monday: Nuclear Meltdown in Japan

[krazykarl]

Quote from benwm:

I'm just puzzled at the logistics involved in managing the situation. They've got this 20km or 50km evacuation zone in place...so when the guys are not working do they wheel them out of the exclusion zone? Then when they get the wake up call, is the Japanese army/US navy whisking them back on to the site in their protective clothing?

How many guys are involved? I would guess that working at a nuclear power plant is a bit like being a nighttime security guard with a big more technical nous required - there's only 1-2 of you looking after the place, mostly reading the newspaper, watching a bit of TV, you're never really expecting to use any of the stuff in the emergency situation manual, so you never read it...

Considering the fact that the tsunami took out the water cooling pumps I wonder how these guys on site survived the tsunami? Did they have some sort of panic room bunker that survived the tsunami?

So many questions...

I would imagine the 20-50km zone is just-in-case so people can't come back later and say they didn't do enough, should something major happen. From everything I've been able to get my hands on, right now it's a race to absorb as many neutrons to temper the reactions as possible.(hence the boron) From what I've read LWRs don't "melt down" like you think of a 80s-era cold-war soviet meltdown occurring.

Pending a nuclear blast, I'm buying tomorrow.

 

[Ghost of Cutten]

I love how people are talking about what happened on here, as if they suddenly became nuclear power experts overnight from reading a few things on the internet. I have an idea - how about if you don't have significant experience as a nuclear power engineer, you keep your mouth shut? A better use of time would be to make trading plans for the various contingencies, and look at how you can best position yourself in each case.

"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one should remain silent."

- Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

 

[piezoe]

Many years ago in a past life I worked in the nuclear industry on the scientific end and I do have some knowledge of nuclear power plants, but I am not an expert, not now anyway.

I do want to reiterate what I said earlier, and that is that in my opinion it is somewhat more likely that the outcome of this extremely serious situation in Japan will be to show the world that nuclear energy is just as safe, if not safer than alternatives. If anything kills off fission reactors it is most likely to be cost. Not just the cost of building and operating them, but also the cost of cleanup after disasters, such as Chernobyl and what is happening now in Japan. I don't want to equate the situation in Chernobyl in any way with the situation in Japan, however. They are as different as night and day, both from a design standpoint and the competency of the personnel involved.

It is almost impossible to tell from mainstream press reports exactly what is going on, however it does seem that in at least one case there was some intentional venting from one of the containment structures. That is a concern but not a reason to overreact. So far the release of radioactive material seems manageable and not of significant danger to anyone except perhaps those on the scene.

If you are interested in early reactor history in the US including a core meltdown event you will find the following link factual and interesting. http://www.osti.gov/bridge/purl.cov...40B388839446?purl=/195702-qNe0Sk/webviewable/

 

[Cyborg2]

Quote from Cyborg2:

My father was a nuclear technician on a Soviet Submarine, Real Facts for Japanese Reactors.

Breach of containment has definitely happened as you can see from recent sat photo. Notice the white smoke this is a 100% sign that Cesium and others are escaping and have already escaped in mega numbers

My father says that Japanese government has only one card they play. Because Winds are taking the radiation into pacific toward Hawaii Japanese can say there is no radiation.

The Fact is if winds were taking radiation westward entire Japan would already be irradiated and Authorities wouldn't be able to lie

My father guarantees that you will be able to see higher radiation in Hawaii a week from now and even higher than normal radiation on West coast of United States

People of Hawaii should stop listening to "everything is under control" and arm themselves with giger caunters

 

[piezoe]

I should have added to my post directly above that still another, and perhaps the hardest to overcome, challenge for the nuclear reactor industry is irrational public opinion. Perhaps the nuclear industry should do what the medical hardware industry did and change the terminology. When Nuclear magnetic resonance imaging was adopted in medicine the name was changed to MRI or magnetic resonance imaging to get rid of the scary word "nuclear". Perhaps Nuclear reactor power stations can become EFPS, "environmentally friendly power stations".

 

[krazykarl]

Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

I love how people are talking about what happened on here, as if they suddenly became nuclear power experts overnight from reading a few things on the internet. I have an idea - how about if you don't have significant experience as a nuclear power engineer, you keep your mouth shut? A better use of time would be to make trading plans for the various contingencies, and look at how you can best position yourself in each case.

"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one should remain silent."

- Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

Since no trader is an expert in everything, a lot of research is finding out as much relevant material as possible as quickly as possible, then getting in a position to capitalize. Nothing wrong with some internet conjecture.

 

[benwm]

Well according to the article I just read,
"Japan’s nuclear safety agency said 1,450 workers were at the Dai-ichi plant on Sunday, its usual staffing. The workers were in protective gear and were taking shorter turns than usual in units 1 and 3 to limit their exposure, agency spokesman Yoshihiro Sugiyama said."

So that answers one of my questions...a lot more workers than I was expecting! Still not clear how they all survived the tsunami whilst the tsunami took out the water cooling pumps.

http://www.japantoday.com/mobile/view/180000-evacuated-as-nuclear-plant-crisis-intensifies

 

[benwm]

Quote from piezoe:

I should have added to my post directly above that still another, and perhaps the hardest to overcome, challenge for the nuclear reactor industry is irrational public opinion.

perhaps an event like this doesn't help alter such "irrational" public opinion

 

[bond_trad3r]

Nikkei looks like a controlled crash. 5% a day.

 

[piezoe]

Quote from benwm:

perhaps an event like this doesn't help alter such "irrational" public opinion

No, of course not. Right now it is rational to be concerned about the specific situation in Japan. I am hoping, and I think it will turn out to be true, that in this worst case scenario we will learn that these plants, are safe for the general public.

We will never ever eliminate the dangers posed by human error and greed, and we might as well get used to our reality that we can never be absolutely safe until the day we die.

added in edit: I should have said "worst case natural scenario". There can always be something worse caused by humans themselves. The Chernobyl disaster, or the fire bombing of Tokyo would be examples.