Bitcoin will make history as the biggest bubble/pyramid in the history of mankind.

[Neuroway]

Bitcoins are generated out of thin air from mathematical construct. It is not derived from the value of anything.

Tell me, prc117f. How is the USD generated? Is it derived from the value of anything?

 

[Pekelo]

So what is the deal with these "Bitcoin Millionaires" who bought them for pennies or mined them and have 500-1000 or more bitcoins, why are they not cashing out.

There are bona fide millionaires of cryptos and some of them cashing out. Charlie Lee just did last December, the creator of LTC.

Reasons why they are not cashing out (by the way it is rather easy):

1. They are true believers, and they think it will go to the Moon.
2. They cash out only as much as they need. Remember these are geeks with not much of a life experience/needs.
3. Tax reasons. Cashing out all at once might not be a wise choice.

 

[Pekelo]

3. Tax reasons. Cashing out all at once might not be a wise choice.

In 367 days cashing out 3 times, one can stretch taxes into 3 different calendar years. So someone cashing out on:

2016 Dec 31st, anytime late in 2017 and 2018 Jan 1st that is practically 1 year length but 3 different taxing calendar years. And his investment returns would be still damn good.

 

[schweiz]

3. Tax reasons. Cashing out all at once might not be a wise choice.

Cashing out at 19K and pay taxes is cheaper then cashing out now at 9K and pay also (less) taxes. At 9K taxes are replaced by a loss of over 50%. taxes are lower I think.

 

[Pekelo]

Cashing out at 19K and pay taxes is cheaper then cashing out now at 9K and pay also (less) taxes. At 9K taxes are replaced by a loss of over 50%. taxes are lower I think.

Sure but on Dec 31st 2016 nobody knew it would go up to 19K. Once the rally was under way in 2017 it was worthy to wait until the end of the year and when the top was in for sure, in January it was obvious that a quick cash out is the best tax policy.

 

[schweiz]

Sure but on Dec 31st 2016 nobody knew it would go up to 19K. Once the rally was under way in 2017 it was worthy to wait until the end of the year and when the top was in for sure, in January it was obvious that a quick cash out is the best tax policy.

I agree with you, just telling that the tax argument is not sure at all.
I agree that in hindsight things are always very clear.

 

[lovethetrade]

Simple Bitcoin is only worth what the next greater fool is willing to pay that is it. Bitcoins are generated out of thin air from mathematical construct. It is not derived from the value of anything. And these mathematical constructs can be created to infinity in parallel. This is why there are tons of different cryptocurrencies and daily ICOs being advertised on the internet. The intrinsic value of bitcoin is 0, the extrinsic value is what the last fool paid for 1 bitcoin.

What makes bitcoin worth more than something like bitcoin cash? or etherium etc?? The fools could decide to switch to gambling on some other cryptocurrency and abandoned bitcoin.

This whole cryptocurrency reminds me of the HYIP games popular with islanders and some asian populations who play these miniponzis hoping to get out fast enough before it collapses. There are even sites dedicated to reviewing different HYIPs and payout status. The whole cryptocurrency reminds me of all that nonsense.

You don't understand, intrinsic value is irrelevant when it comes to cryptocurrencies, it's all about utility.

"Satoshi was very clear that Bitcoin’s utility of being a medium of exchange is what gives it value. By being valuable through utility, is what makes Bitcoin also be a store of value."

The only relevance intrinsic value has is when investors lose confidence, there's no intrinsic value support level where buyers come back into the market. This contributes to overall market volatility.

 

[lovethetrade]

What makes bitcoin worth more than something like bitcoin cash? or etherium etc?? The fools could decide to switch to gambling on some other cryptocurrency and abandoned bitcoin.

The network effect and different coins/block chains are geared towards a different purpose.

"However, from a general point of view, Bitcoin and Ethereum differ in purpose. While Bitcoin is created as an alternative to regular money and is thus a medium of payment transaction and store of value, Ethereum is developed as a platform which facilitates peer-to-peer contracts and applications via its own currency vehicle. While Bitcoin and Ether are both digital currencies, the primary purpose of Ether is not to establish itself as a payment alternative (unlike Bitcoin) but to facilitate and monetize the working of Ethereum to enable developers to build and run distributed applications (ĐApps)."

Bitcoin Vs Ethereum: Driven by Different Purposes
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/031416/bitcoin-vs-ethereum-driven-different-purposes.asp#ixzz567mNULbr

 

[d08]

So many idiots liquidated 401K's, took out everything they can from credit cards to buy a much bitcoin as possible during the peak when it was trading 10-20K.

I was getting calls from people, and friends etc.. would ask me what do I think about investing in bitcoin. I told all of them do not do it it is a scam.

Unfortunately a few did not heed my advice and I know of one person who bought into it when it was at the peaks.

You would see Bitcoin ATMS (one way street, put in your USD and get bitcoins) not the other way around. Tons of ads everywhere about buying bitcoin, how to deposit into it even bitcoin IRAS!! yes such as www.bitcoinira.com. they even have offices to shear the sheep dry.

It is funny how you always hear about these "Bitcoin millionaires" yet they are not millionaires if they are still living in mom/dads basement.

You even had Crypto castles a kind of hostel where "Bitcoin Millionaires" could rent a small spot in a bunkbed in a shared dorm. (but if you have millions why not have your own place?)

The media would always be reporting on these millennial "Bitcoin Millionaires" but none of them had a penny to pinch together.

So why is this? Because the market is so thin that they cannot liquidate their holdings and at best they can do 5-10K a day and if the bank does not freeze thier accounts on suspicion of money laundering.

So yeah, they have millions in pretend money in an illiquid opaque market with limited depth and very difficult from going to BTC to USD (yet frictionless when going the other way)

It always seems to be the same kind of person who pops up at the top of the bubble to buy high and sell low. be it stocks,property,etc.. and they also seem to fall for scams just as quick.

Crypto is a very long con and lots of people getting scalped. I would not be surprised to hear in a few years it was all started by a bunch of Russians who played a well developed long con to get people hooked.

Bitcoin is probably a bubble but what's your issue with people living with their parents? You sound like a baby boomer frustrated about the fact that the millennials don't follow your societal rules. They look at a house as an extra expense but more than that, something that robs you of your time and energy. If they can get along with their parents and have reasonable privacy in their "mom's basement", more power to them. They don't waste time cutting grass outside just to adhere to some opaque suburban rules of what's pretty. That's time saved right there. I'm a millennial and from people I know, no millennial is proud to have a house/apartment anymore, for good reasons.

Many geniuses have lived with parents. Grigory Perelman in Russia turned down $1m after solving one of the most difficult mathematical problems of all time. He lives with his mother.

In the end it sounds like you're just infuriated that what you consider an achievement (getting a house) is not recognized as anything anymore, time have moved on. Remember, ghetto gangbangers with an IQ of 80 also have houses, so it's really not a big deal in any sense.

Disclaimer: I don't live in my mom's basement.

 

[southall]

They look at a house as an extra expense but more than that, something that robs you of your time and energy. If they can get along with their parents and have reasonable privacy in their "mom's basement", more power to them. They don't waste time cutting grass outside just to adhere to some opaque suburban rules of what's pretty. That's time saved right there. I'm a millennial and from people I know, no millennial is proud to have a house/apartment anymore, for good reasons.

Many geniuses have lived with parents. Grigory Perelman in Russia turned down $1m after solving one of the most difficult mathematical problems of all time. He lives with his mother.

In the end it sounds like you're just infuriated that what you consider an achievement (getting a house) is not recognized as anything anymore, time have moved on.

Living in moms basement is fine for singles or even couples for a few years. great way to save money.
But it is no place to raise kids (if that is what you want).