Bitcoin vs Gold as a store of value

[JackRab]

Gold is overrated in a digital world and is currently in a long-term bear market.

I'm sorry.. where exactly do you see a long term bear market?

Yes, it doesn't have intrinsic value, is a difficult asset to value and is extremely volatile but that doesn't mean it doesn't have utility and numerous reasons that make it a superior investment choice for investors.

It's 'difficult' to value because it doesn't have any intrinsic value... and what again is the utility it has and the numerous reasons for it to be superior?

All I see is it's maybe fun and volatile and therefore rags-to-riches is a possibility due to the speculative nature (but don't forget riches-to-rags)... that has nothing to do with investing... same like putting all your eggs in biotech isn't sound investing... it's throwing money in a pit hoping someone else throws more money back.

 

[JackRab]

Cryptos are like the internet in the late 90's lots of excitement, lots of issues and lots of scams. But ultimately went on to become something world changing.

That would be the tech behind it... not the coin. It's like how major banks are linking up with Ripple's network, but there's no need for the coin itself... therefore it's of no real use and value is nil...

 

[johnarb]

Absolutely. Even currencies are better in that to some extent they are backed by governments. Bitcoins real value is how usable as a currency it is and right now, it's practically useless.

Bitcoin's real use_case is as a store of value and hedge against massive printing of fiat by CB's worldwide. The currency functionality is a very nice bonus, imho

 

[ET180]

Bitcoin's real use_case is as a store of value and hedge against massive printing of fiat by CB's worldwide. The currency functionality is a very nice bonus, imho

Tulip bulbs were a store of value for a while too. Btc's real value is in the black market supporting money laundering and tax-evasion.

 

[johnarb]

Tulip bulbs were a store of value for a while too. Btc's real value is in the black market supporting money laundering and tax-evasion.

If you say so. How many Bitcoin CME futures are you short, big man?

 

[JackRab]

If you say so. How many Bitcoin CME futures are you short, big man?

You have the wrong belief that if someone thinks it's not a buy it should therefore be a sell... just because something is shit, it doesn't mean you should short it... things that can be manipulated easily are short-killers.

Like penny stocks nobody has ever heard of that are being hyped up in newsletters... it's all marketing, marketed by the people who have an ulterior motive.

 

[johnarb]

You have the wrong belief that if someone thinks it's not a buy it should therefore be a sell... just because something is shit, it doesn't mean you should short it... things that can be manipulated easily are short-killers.

Like penny stocks nobody has ever heard of that are being hyped up in newsletters... it's all marketing, marketed by the people who have an ulterior motive.

You can take it in that way, but at the same time, you have to understand that people like you who talk tulip bulbs, or scams, or penny stocks are being utterly disrespectful to all the people who choose to risk and invest. It's nice that you can talk sh*t without repercussions. Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Overnight]

...Put your money where your mouth is.

Oh snap, that sounded like a challenge like from the olden times.

 

[JackRab]

You can take it in that way, but at the same time, you have to understand that people like you who talk tulip bulbs, or scams, or penny stocks are being utterly disrespectful to all the people who choose to risk and invest. It's nice that you can talk sh*t without repercussions. Put your money where your mouth is.

Mate.. I have been putting my money where my mouth is and risking and investing for over 15 years... much of it in a professional environment. If you want to talk it up on a public forum by inflating the pros... I can talk it back down by showing the risks and cons.

By the way, I never said it's a scam... the idea was solid... it's just been taken beyond what it was supposed to do by people left and right creating other coins.. printing virtual money everywhere... basically giving anyone who can code the power to print.

I read the perfect analogy... if anyone could print paper money, it would soon collapse because it's just worth the paper it's printed on. Central banks have the monopoly of printing money, therefore the value is in the trust. So if everyone starts printing digital coins (like they have been for a while)... eventually it will just be worth the 0's and 1's it's printed on...

EDIT. I actually do think I said it was a scam... meaning the bulk of the ICO's

 

[ET180]

If you say so. How many Bitcoin CME futures are you short, big man?

Where did I say I was short Bitcoin? I believe that the long-term value of Bitcoin is 0. However, I have no idea how high it will go and for how long before it goes to zero. It's a completely speculative product.

I find it interesting how people get offended when one criticizes Bitcoin. If the hodlers really believed in it, then they would not feel the need to recruit new people by posting "buy Bitcoin" comments under completely unrelated Youtube videos about cars in a pathetic effort to prop up their speculative gamble so that they can get out before the damn thing collapses (not accusing johnarb of doing that, just pointing out another experience).

Regarding this:

You can take it in that way, but at the same time, you have to understand that people like you who talk tulip bulbs, or scams, or penny stocks are being utterly disrespectful to all the people who choose to risk and invest. It's nice that you can talk sh*t without repercussions. Put your money where your mouth is.

I'm net long stocks right now although at reduced exposure from a month ago. However, although I occasionally read SeekingAlpha and see many articles from people predicting the next bear market beginning soon, I don't get offended and post dismissive comments under the article to the tune of "Oh, so you're bearish...you've been wrong for the past 8 years...why don't you go sell some more ITM SPX calls!" Just because I'm long, I don't care if others are short. Maybe they are right, time will tell. We need both sides to make a liquid market. I just don't feel the need to convince people to hop on the bandwagon because I believe that the fundamentals are on my side and eventually the market will prove me right. Logically, if one did not believe that, one should exit the trade. That's why I don't like taking positions on products where the fundamentals are not as clear.

As I said above (or possibly in another thread), I do think bitcoin has some merits. I like the idea of a currency or asset that is outside of government control. So far, Bitcoin has a purpose at least for money laundering and tax evasion. When countries introduce capital controls, I can understand why there would be great demand for a quick place to hide money. I'm just not convinced that Bitcoin will be the final currency. I see it more as a MySpace than a Facebook. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.