Bitcoin thread anyone?

Swan Noir · Dec 7, 2013

As many have commented BC might be an interesting trading vehicle but, at least at this stage, to pretend it has the attributes of a real currency is simply rediculous.

m22au · Dec 7, 2013

Quote from Swan Noir:

As many have commented BC might be an interesting trading vehicle but, at least at this stage, to pretend it has the attributes of a real currency is simply rediculous.

I disagree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money

"The main functions of money are distinguished as:
a medium of exchange;
a unit of account;
a store of value"

It's definitely a medium of exchange, and definitely can be unitized (an advantage it holds over gold). It only fails on the "store of value" measure, because of the volatility.

However, for people wanting to use it for secrecy reasons (buying drugs, money laundering, avoid capital controls), this doesn't matter because Bitcoin's benefits outweigh the volatility.

Anyway, given that transactions between Bitcoin and your fiat currency of choice are quick and easy, if you are a drug dealer, you can just instantaneously convert your Bitcoin into USD for each sale. You could also update your price list to reflect the last traded price of Bitcoin.

Swan Noir · Dec 7, 2013

It is not a medium of exchange because 99.9% of those who exchange things on a daily basis do not accept it. There is no segment of our (or anyone elses) economy that accepts BC to the degree that it would need to be accepted to serve the purpose.

Trading vehicle? Sure. Currency? Not even close.

Quote from m22au:

I disagree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money

"The main functions of money are distinguished as:
a medium of exchange;
a unit of account;
a store of value"

It's definitely a medium of exchange, and definitely can be unitized (an advantage it holds over gold). It only fails on the "store of value" measure, because of the volatility.

However, for people wanting to use it for secrecy reasons (buying drugs, money laundering, avoid capital controls), this doesn't matter because Bitcoin's benefits outweigh the volatility.

Anyway, given that transactions between Bitcoin and your fiat currency of choice are quick and easy, if you are a drug dealer, you can just instantaneously convert your Bitcoin into USD for each sale. You could also update your price list to reflect the last traded price of Bitcoin.

m22au · Dec 7, 2013

Quote from Swan Noir:

It is not a medium of exchange because 99.9% of those who exchange things on a daily basis do not accept it. There is no segment of our (or anyone elses) economy that accepts BC to the degree that it would need to be accepted to serve the purpose.

I agree with the above, but it "serves the purpose" for drug dealers (and their customers), people from China (and other countries) with capital controls and money launderers. For these groups of people, it acts as a currency, and therefore, for them, it is a currency.

Hoi · Dec 8, 2013

Quote from Swan Noir:

It is not a medium of exchange because 99.9% of those who exchange things on a daily basis do not accept it. There is no segment of our (or anyone elses) economy that accepts BC to the degree that it would need to be accepted to serve the purpose.

Trading vehicle? Sure. Currency? Not even close.

For now: yes. But you will see in a few years (probably earlier) that Billions of 3e country citizens are going to use it. This because they have no bank-account (cannot get it) and have no credit cards, but they all have Mobile-phones and have a need to bank themselves, and exchange money for goods and services. This is already started in Africa.
Just open your eyes !

stevegee58 · Dec 8, 2013

Quote from m22au:

I agree with the above, but it "serves the purpose" for drug dealers (and their customers), people from China (and other countries) with capital controls and money launderers. For these groups of people, it acts as a currency, and therefore, for them, it is a currency.

USD paper currency remains the #1 medium of exchange for money launderers and drug dealers.

m22au · Dec 8, 2013

Quote from stevegee58:

USD paper currency remains the #1 medium of exchange for money launderers and drug dealers.

Quite possibly true, but Bitcoin is another option, especially if one doesn't want to deal with the risks associated with physical cash.

ElCubano · Dec 8, 2013

Quote from m22au:

Quite possibly true, but Bitcoin is another option, especially if one doesn't want to deal with the risks associated with physical cash.

Bitcoin as anonymous as one thinks leaves a trail that will always be there. I just dont see it, i may be missing something.

stevegee58 · Dec 8, 2013

Quote from ElCubano:

Bitcoin as anonymous as one thinks leaves a trail that will always be there. I just dont see it, i may be missing something.

You're right, it's not completely anonymous. But it can be made anonymous by shifting your BTC among various addresses under your control. Remember that you don't have to get 1 address and use that all the time. In fact a "best practice" is to create new addresses for every transaction you engage in.

So a level of obfuscation through "self laundering" and creation of new addresses greatly increases anonymity.

ElCubano · Dec 8, 2013

Quote from stevegee58:

You're right, it's not completely anonymous. But it can be made anonymous by shifting your BTC among various addresses under your control. Remember that you don't have to get 1 address and use that all the time. In fact a "best practice" is to create new addresses for every transaction you engage in.

So a level of obfuscation through "self laundering" and creation of new addresses greatly increases anonymity.

Even with LAYERING, which is also used to cover the dollar trail, don't u still leave a map. If they really wanted to know ur identity couldn't they just also follow the trail? Again I don't know. Even with the ease of transferring the dirty money eventually one still needs to show how he made that coin, if and when they get busted. The whole purpose of money laundering is to show that the money was made through legal means...