Quote from Pekelo:
Look what I have found....
derp, how many times do you have to be told that you can't value btc by price, but rather by percentages? Of course it looks like that when it used to trade at a penny?
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#igWeeklyztgSzm1g10zm2g25zl
Bitcoin thread anyone?
- Thread starter COB
- Start date
Conceptually bitcoin is an electronic precious metal, since it's scarce by design, it's easy to transfer and is divisible enough. Unfortunately, at the current state, bitcoin is nothing more then an "bearer" promissory note with uncertain value.
However, what makes gold/silver/platinum/palladium into store of value is not really the scarcity/transferability/divisibility (many other things are scarce enough) but also a long history as the store of value which builds trust, and massive consumption base that goes beyond store of value (e.g. annual production of gold is 60% consumed). Since bitcoin does not have the industrial use or any other consumption, it has to gain trust to be a store of value.
However, what makes gold/silver/platinum/palladium into store of value is not really the scarcity/transferability/divisibility (many other things are scarce enough) but also a long history as the store of value which builds trust, and massive consumption base that goes beyond store of value (e.g. annual production of gold is 60% consumed). Since bitcoin does not have the industrial use or any other consumption, it has to gain trust to be a store of value.
Well clearly the party will end if mtgox adopts the newer currency L____ ?
It is good for the industry, but competition is competition.
You can look at the chart any way you like, log or non log. But looking at it the way most people look at it would be wiser. (but it seems they do not even look at it)
I want in though just a bit. how can I do it the easy expensive way and have some thing "Hard" in my hand that can be transferred for cash ? preferably without opening multiple accounts and without having to depend on my PC (full of viruses) for security.
Id like to just buy the code, but that would mean some one else knows it ? any ideas?
It is good for the industry, but competition is competition.
You can look at the chart any way you like, log or non log. But looking at it the way most people look at it would be wiser. (but it seems they do not even look at it)
I want in though just a bit. how can I do it the easy expensive way and have some thing "Hard" in my hand that can be transferred for cash ? preferably without opening multiple accounts and without having to depend on my PC (full of viruses) for security.
Id like to just buy the code, but that would mean some one else knows it ? any ideas?
...that they have intrinsic value. Gold is a very good conductor, you can make things out of, it is shiny thus people like it as jewelry, and I can hit you on the head with a goldbar or I can use it as a paperweight.
Electronic precious metal is an oxymoron, but if you think there is such a thing, that would be e-Gold.
Oh yeah, what happened to e-gold?:
"In 2007 the proprietors of the e-gold service were indicted by the United States Department of Justice on four counts of violating money laundering regulations. In July 2008 the company and its three directors pleaded guilty to charges of "conspiracy to engage in money laundering" and the "operation of an unlicensed money transmitting business" in the U.S. District Court for D.C"
90% of gold mined is consumed for no real economic need, other than people "like it" (jewelry) and it's a good store of value (investment). Only 10% of gold mined in any given year is required for industrial purposes.
Point being, fickle preferences, such as "liking" gold (but not needing it), can go a long, long way in determining "value"....This is what the anti-Gold crowd (CNBC) always drone on about. Gold - you can't use it for anything. Yet the world has respected it's value since the dawn of civilization?
This whole Bitcoin experiment has raised some interesting concepts of what value is.
In my opinion, outside of basic needs (air, water, dry ground, food, shelter, companionship), value is subjective. But within that, it's relative. If product A is better than product B at delivering what I value, then product A has more value.
Point being, fickle preferences, such as "liking" gold (but not needing it), can go a long, long way in determining "value"....This is what the anti-Gold crowd (CNBC) always drone on about. Gold - you can't use it for anything. Yet the world has respected it's value since the dawn of civilization?
This whole Bitcoin experiment has raised some interesting concepts of what value is.
In my opinion, outside of basic needs (air, water, dry ground, food, shelter, companionship), value is subjective. But within that, it's relative. If product A is better than product B at delivering what I value, then product A has more value.
the idea of precious metals vs bit coin are not that different. Especially when it comes to gold as it is not used for anything really. (10%)
So when we take out the 10% what is left ? Just an idea. But that idea may be wrong. We are not on the gold standard any more. Situation has changed. add to this that the link of inflation to printing money is now being questioned.
Once that link is questioned, everything falls apart. we see government printing and no inflation. in the USA and in japan. Sure one can say that inflation has been put aside due to enforced higher demand for the reserve currency. But that does not mean that printing is linked to the price of gold.
The gold bulls will tell you that governments lie about inflation numbers, even so, look how much gold went up ! people can still afford a decent life style and save alot of money.
Gold stops in its tracks waiting for inflation and it is absent.
Bitcoins can be used for its anonymity for that it is great if you have something to hide. but if that is the value chances of a government crack down are high. Even worse for criminals it can be used to find people that may be using it for illegal means.
But for an investor gold is more attractive. I know bit coins are skyrocketing, so was gold, reality comes in to play at some point.
If it is not a hedge for inflation, if one does need to hide money or engage in crime. what good is it really? it cant be used during martial law times without a doubt.
What is it good for ? nothing like gold.
but for governments (looking at cyprus) and not assuming that government cant differentiate between a rusian and a local innocent cyprus citizen it may be of use.
They attack peoples savings, because they cant print. they cant print cause people do not know what number comes after trillions yet and that scares them. So they go for the money horded by civilians.
A good way to get this cash is have people change the cash in for gold or bit coins. Why does the mint print such coins? they want you to buy it and let go of your cash.
So maybe it is a sales pitch, with some reverse psychology, from the governments. Your money is not safe go out and buy something !
now its just hype. In reality, metals that are consumed are worth more as there is 2 types of demand. Gold and bitcoins only have one. Yes it is a powerful one, peoples emotions. but now we see a saturation of people with gold and no move in price or inflation. gold stops. as will bit coins when crime has fully adopted it. when there is no extra demand but the people and people start to sell, what happens?
Bitcoin is newer so it is enjoying a time of accumulation like gold did before. but after this people may see that there are issues with it and other options are not as bad as they thought. The US dollar holds, it is stable. It should not be according to what we are told. but it does hold.
Again, does any one know an easy safe quick way to get my hands on these.
It pisses me off that I looked in to bit coins so long ago and did nothing about it !!!
If you worry about the end of government trust and a break down in currency, canned food with a little garden will be worth so much more. look at what happens in areas hit with hyper inflation. All they want is food. it is all we need. it is the only thing we need. it is trade, it is barter. Even the government now sleeps in the same bed as Monsanto. Paper is paper, metal is metal, digital currency is digital currency. Food and Water is life.
The dollar, metals, bit coins are all the same, they are based on trust of non stop demand. once demand slows shit hits the fan.
Buy it, accumulate it, mine it. but don't assume you are better off then its predecessors.
Why cant you see the danger of the new digital currency that starts with L ? how is that not competition ? You just know a bunch of these will pop up diluting the market. One may prevail, historically it is not the first one.
So when we take out the 10% what is left ? Just an idea. But that idea may be wrong. We are not on the gold standard any more. Situation has changed. add to this that the link of inflation to printing money is now being questioned.
Once that link is questioned, everything falls apart. we see government printing and no inflation. in the USA and in japan. Sure one can say that inflation has been put aside due to enforced higher demand for the reserve currency. But that does not mean that printing is linked to the price of gold.
The gold bulls will tell you that governments lie about inflation numbers, even so, look how much gold went up ! people can still afford a decent life style and save alot of money.
Gold stops in its tracks waiting for inflation and it is absent.
Bitcoins can be used for its anonymity for that it is great if you have something to hide. but if that is the value chances of a government crack down are high. Even worse for criminals it can be used to find people that may be using it for illegal means.
But for an investor gold is more attractive. I know bit coins are skyrocketing, so was gold, reality comes in to play at some point.
If it is not a hedge for inflation, if one does need to hide money or engage in crime. what good is it really? it cant be used during martial law times without a doubt.
What is it good for ? nothing like gold.
but for governments (looking at cyprus) and not assuming that government cant differentiate between a rusian and a local innocent cyprus citizen it may be of use.
They attack peoples savings, because they cant print. they cant print cause people do not know what number comes after trillions yet and that scares them. So they go for the money horded by civilians.
A good way to get this cash is have people change the cash in for gold or bit coins. Why does the mint print such coins? they want you to buy it and let go of your cash.
So maybe it is a sales pitch, with some reverse psychology, from the governments. Your money is not safe go out and buy something !
now its just hype. In reality, metals that are consumed are worth more as there is 2 types of demand. Gold and bitcoins only have one. Yes it is a powerful one, peoples emotions. but now we see a saturation of people with gold and no move in price or inflation. gold stops. as will bit coins when crime has fully adopted it. when there is no extra demand but the people and people start to sell, what happens?
Bitcoin is newer so it is enjoying a time of accumulation like gold did before. but after this people may see that there are issues with it and other options are not as bad as they thought. The US dollar holds, it is stable. It should not be according to what we are told. but it does hold.
Again, does any one know an easy safe quick way to get my hands on these.
It pisses me off that I looked in to bit coins so long ago and did nothing about it !!!
If you worry about the end of government trust and a break down in currency, canned food with a little garden will be worth so much more. look at what happens in areas hit with hyper inflation. All they want is food. it is all we need. it is the only thing we need. it is trade, it is barter. Even the government now sleeps in the same bed as Monsanto. Paper is paper, metal is metal, digital currency is digital currency. Food and Water is life.
The dollar, metals, bit coins are all the same, they are based on trust of non stop demand. once demand slows shit hits the fan.
Buy it, accumulate it, mine it. but don't assume you are better off then its predecessors.
Why cant you see the danger of the new digital currency that starts with L ? how is that not competition ? You just know a bunch of these will pop up diluting the market. One may prevail, historically it is not the first one.
http://rt.com/news/bitcoin-currency-cyber-attack-394/
A dual attack gox and insta wallet. It wont happen again I am sure. Fool me shame on you fool twice ... well Im a fool.
But not a dent on price ! solid action !
A dual attack gox and insta wallet. It wont happen again I am sure. Fool me shame on you fool twice ... well Im a fool.
But not a dent on price ! solid action !
So what? The argument was that Bitcoin has no intrinsic value whatsoever, but gold/silver/platinum have. Your stated fact doesn't change that.
If gold/silver loses their value transferring properties tomorrow, we can still use them for hundreds of things. We can make faucets, cups, sculptures, whatever out of it. Right now we don't do it generally, because the value property is more important.*
If people get disappointed in Bitcoins tomorrow and abandon it, you can do shit with it. And that was the whole point...
* By the way this brings up a good point. Right now Bitcoin is deflating like crazy so its value generating property (investment tool) is more important, than its value exchanging (currency) property. Thus hording is encouraged and actual usage isn't.
$215 each. No big deal...
It's weird how I mined 22 BTC with my cheap little graphics card and it's worth over $4000 now.
Word over at bitcointalk is that MtGox is hugely backed up with account verifications now, over 15,000. Every swingin' dick (and his mother) is looking to cash out before it crashes. I can't see MtGox having the cash reserves to honor every panic stricken customer wanting to cash out.
I never thought I'd say this, but I can see it reaching $1000 at this rate. (Or it could just crash tomorrow)
Word over at bitcointalk is that MtGox is hugely backed up with account verifications now, over 15,000. Every swingin' dick (and his mother) is looking to cash out before it crashes. I can't see MtGox having the cash reserves to honor every panic stricken customer wanting to cash out.
I never thought I'd say this, but I can see it reaching $1000 at this rate. (Or it could just crash tomorrow)