Bitcoin miners facing a shakeout as profitability becomes harder

[FXbeachbum]

The Swiss have changed virtually nothing. I suggest you read this article in Forbes mag: Swiss Bank Secrecy---Their Lips Say Yes, But Their Eyes Say No. https://www.forbes.com/sites/taxana...s-say-yes-but-their-eyes-say-no/#314fa2455783



I believe that as long as rich donors are benefiting from cryptos, the government won't step in. The only way I see the government stepping in, is if the cryptos are being against the rich, such as for collecting kidnapping ransoms.



The middleman will never go away. In fact for cryptos transactions, it involves even more middlemen (i.e. miners) than traditional transactions.



I am not arguing that the vast majority of new crypto investors will lose big on cryptos. I am just arguing that some cryptos will survive.

I wasn’t aware that the Swiss was for show, I suppose I just assumed from last I heard they buckled. Plus their currency hasn’t traded the same ever since all that went down. Thanks for the read. Sorry wasn’t trying to dispute your original comment I thought it was pretty funny. I’m bad about quoting then separating the rest of my statement which is meant to be just general in the forum sorry about that.

If you want to call miners middle men it’s fine I’m not going to dispute that. I’m just implying those who use the typical system and are paying fees to banks and other financials have the benefit of the institutions taking responsibility if things go awry. With bitcoin and other cryptos your responsible for your wallet, there’s online wallets, offline wallets etc. If things go awry there’s not much protection available you’re responsible. I suppose that’s what I’m implying. I personally think governments would get involved if crypto became mainstream which I don’t believe anyways. Our whole economy is based on controlling our currency no way governments don't step in.

This is just info I read in a book but rumor had it that China and Russia were looking into they’re own digital currencies since they could use the blockchain tech to actually gain more control and oversight of their currencies. Rumor also had it of fed coin, and that it maintains parity with USD. Of course I’m relying on the author of a book for my info if he’s mistaken then I am too.

If the tech becomes efficient enough I feel it would be most likely integrated into the current system. Yes this seems contrary to the whole purpose of cryptos now but based on what I’ve read I feel that’s how it would be applied. Personally the only reason for crypto to exist would be for a black market so to say. Once people find out crypto isn’t going mainstream cryptos will collapse substantially from current levels and like you said only a few will survive and most likely not at what their worth is today. If crypto is all about secrecy it would seem that monero or a currency like that has the best chances of survival.

 

[DaveV]

This is just info I read in a book but rumor had it that China and Russia were looking into they’re own digital currencies since they could use the blockchain tech to actually gain more control and oversight of their currencies. Rumor also had it of fed coin, and that it maintains parity with USD.

I think this is the best bet for a crypto to survive -- to be actually based on something of value, and the value could be audited.

 

[schweiz]

The Swiss have changed virtually nothing.

All depends of which article you read.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/tax-evasion_swiss-say-goodbye-to-banking-secrecy-/42799134

A new era
Now countries with which Switzerland has signed agreements no longer need to request information on their citizen’s Swiss bank accounts. The data will be handed over automatically once a year. However, this data can only be used for tax collection efforts and cannot be made public.

The first beneficiaries of the Swiss tilt towards banking transparency include mostly rich European countries as well as Australia, Japan, Canada, and South Korea. For developing countries like India, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina and South Africa the process will only begin a year later.

However, poor countries will not be accorded this privilege because they lack the resources to fulfill the conditions for automatic information exchange, i.e. the ability to collect and share information on financial assets of Swiss citizens living in their countries and the guarantee that the information provided by Switzerland will only be used for tax purposes and will remain confidential.

https://www.sif.admin.ch/sif/en/hom...sch/automatischer-informationsaustausch1.html

Tax transparency should be increased and cross-border tax evasion and should be prevented with the help of the global standard for the automatic exchange of information on financial accounts (AEOI). The global standard makes provision for the mutual exchange of information on financial accounts between states and territories that have agreed among themselves to the AEOI. Aside from Switzerland, over 100 states and territories, including all major financial centres, have declared their intention to adopt the standard.

The legal basis for the AEOI was approved by The Federal Assembly in December 2015. It entered into force on 1 January 2017.

Switzerland generally implements the AEOI on the basis of the Multilateral Competent Authority Agreement on the Automatic Exchange of Financial Account Information (MCAA). Bilateral treaties have been concluded with the EU, Hong Kong and Singapore as the basis for the AEOI.

 

[FXbeachbum]

I think this is the best bet for a crypto to survive -- to be actually based on something of value, and the value could be audited.

Agree that eventually they’re eliminated. However the possibility of a black market survival exist. Bitcoin wasn’t really the first digital currency. It’s the first mainstream but 10 years back someone showed me some HYIP programs that only would accept digital currency. Of course it was being used for questionable things then too, so as long as there’s a demand for a black market and secrecy ppl will find worth in things for secrecy. Although they really have no real value. Don’t worry though I’m not betting my money on any or which ones stick around. Wish there was an efficient way to short the crypto market as a whole.

 

[DaveV]

All depends of which article you read.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/tax-evasion_swiss-say-goodbye-to-banking-secrecy-/42799134
...

Sorry, but I find it hard to believe the linked article. If the Swiss banks are not protecting depositors identities, then why are they continuing to use the Swiss banks since they are paid negative interest rates? Especially since their are other haven (Caymans, Panama) that will protect their identities.

 

[neke]

Electricity can cost between US$3,224 and more than US$9,000 to mine a single bitcoin, depending on the state

Just curious what the cost of electricity per coin was 6 years ago when one bitcoin sold for less than a dollar. So the cost of electricity must have basically shot up in tandem with the price of the coin. How is this not a ponzi. We know the algorithm will become even harder to use (mine ) so costs are bound to keep growing exponentially - taking price with it until someone says ENOUGH of this crap - the biggest fool would have gotten in, and this will implode. Have we already hit that biggest fool? I don't know.

 

[Pekelo]

Have we already hit that biggest fool?

Hey, I thought BTC at 20K was a sound investment.

So the cost of electricity must have basically shot up in tandem with the price of the coin.

That is not how it works. The cost of equipment shot up and also you needed less time to mine a coin thus less electricity used in the same time, per coin.

For comparison:

https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/average-electricity-prices-kwh.html

 

[JackRab]

Hoi, who is/was one of the believers, wrote this:Mining one coin will never cost more than the price of the coin itself (it will auto adjust to about 25% to be profitable...

I would like to know whta the bitcoin gurus have to tell now. But they seem to be disappeared, or at least they cannot explain the fact that mining will be always profitable does not sounds to be correct. Probable their statement was part of the pump and dump scheme.

Haha Hoi hasn't been seen since he said on 21-Dec "chart looks very health to me (actually a very nice entry point at $17000). No freefall at all."

Never been above that level again....

 

[schweiz]

Sorry, but I find it hard to believe the linked article. If the Swiss banks are not protecting depositors identities, then why are they continuing to use the Swiss banks since they are paid negative interest rates? Especially since their are other haven (Caymans, Panama) that will protect their identities.

Maybe you should first read this and google AEOI:
"AEOI is an international standard developed by the OECD and G20 which let the participating countries’ citizens’ bank account data to be exchanged automatically to the countries’ tax authorities. “Automatically” means that your financial data is shared with your home country’s tax authority without any data access authorization required, not on a case-by-case basis like in the past.

The above means that if your plan is to hide your assets and evade taxes, you’ll be doomed, sooner or later. Unfortunately, those who want to protect their assets legally also impacted by the data transparency procedure.

With 101 jurisdictions have committed — at least by 2018, and more to come in the upcoming years — there will be a lack of options available for your asset protection endeavor."

US and CAYMAN signed this worldwide agreement. Switzerland signed for participation starting from 2019. PANAMA signed to join by 2018. Th holes are closing wore and more. You should stayu out of all these countries, not only with your offshore company but also with your bank accounts.

You can also read the PDF attached to understand what has changed.

It is funny that you believe the article from Forbes, and think the article from a governemental Suisse organisation is fake. LOL.

 

[DaveV]

It is funny that you believe the article from Forbes, and think the article from a governemental Suisse organisation is fake. LOL.

It's not so much as believing one article vs the other. It is from a lifelong observation of the ability of the super-rich to skirt all rules and laws, and to exert political influence to get what they want.