Bitcoin is dead...

[Pekelo]

i agree with @HolyGrailSeeker , people are coming around the concept of cryptocurrency now a days and bitcoin is comes first in mind.

I have to agree up to a degree. I never thought I would love to read ebooks. But I warmed up to the idea and now I don't read normal books anymore. But that doesn't mean the very first ebook reader is the best or is it still in use. Even if it had some unique features, newer ebook readers were/are better, cheaper, more usable.

Hey, just like bitcoin! So if you have to choose an ebook reader today, do you decide based on history or based on its price and features?

"NuvoMedia released the first handheld e-reader, the Rocket eBook. SoftBook launched its SoftBook reader. This e-reader, with expandable storage, could store up to 100,000 pages of content, including text, graphics and pictures. The Cybook was sold and manufactured at first by Cytale (1998–2003) and later by Bookeen."

And I know, cryptos aren't exactly like ebook readers, because of the gambling nature of its holders using it as investment. And here comes the ponzi feature of it into play. A crypto's current value has nothing to do (sadly) with its usability and its features, but its perceived future value. To keep the price just at level, they need a CONSTANT inflow of money to buy up the newly mined coins. The perfect ponzi, I say because now you can buy them all over the world.

 

[traderjo]

REVOLUTION OF e books cant be compared to crypto! as per your own observation gambling nature + ponzi ! what I dont get is one still needs real currency to first purchase these "Assets" and at the end to exit! technology might be great but what is happening around the world is just opening of another gambling pit ( I am not against gambling per say as long as it is declared as a legal gambling) It take thousands of dollar to raise money from people through an IPO ona major exchange ...but for an ICO the scrutiny is hardly anything,, a 2 page whitpaper! that is all, oh it is a "utility token" they say...what a BS.. utility token/ equity token whatever at the end of the day you are raising public funds !

 

[traderjo]

First, it is not limited if it can be forked. Second what you said is valid for pretty much any other cryptos, so that is still not a good explanation for high evaluation. Third, just because something is limited that doesn't give it automatically huge value. The number of poops I am going to produce in my lifetime is limited, it can be useful, yet...You see where I am going?

Also whatever argument you says could have been said 3 years ago (2K) 1 year ago (16K) or today (4K) yet we get 3 hugely different evaluations. Nothing changed yet price was up and down. The explanation for that is, bitcoin is worth as much as people THINK it is worth. There is no logical, economical explanation for it, otherwise price wouldn't fluctuate 100-200% in a few weeks as it did in the past.

As much as I like to explain things, from now on we are just gonna go in circles. Here is my advice: Trade bitcoin if you can because it is still a good gambling vehicle, but don't hold it like it is something special and will fund your retirement. And even if it runs up again, remember lots of people held through 20K and still holding because they thought it would go to 50K or whatever...Timing is everything.

Good luck...

Could not agree more with your observation Pekelo , specially "The number of poops I am going to produce" LOL , but people wont see the very valid points you have raised .

 

[traderjo]

Bitcoin far from dead.

Starbucks will be accepting bitcoin indirectly through Bakkt probably end of this year.

Samsung Galaxy S10 will have a cryptocurrency wallet which most likely will allow to store bitcoin and a few other cryptocurrencies.

OK so can you show me the logic in using Bitcoin to by my coffee?
- First I have to convert my $/ pounds etc to Bitcoin.. as soon as I do that the price can fluctuate so I take currency risk!
- In case I am earning and spending in same currency why would i take the above risk?
- If you are talking about ease of payment... now a days with technology a tap and go payment takes 3 seconds $ to $!
- as a merchant ( unless you are in a transport hub with lots of international travelers ) why would you have part of your turnover subject to such currency risk?
- Not to add if market is flooded with diff Cryptos... then what? lets say like the 7 major real currencies which are traded, tomorrow 7 Cryptos become popular.. so now the problems remains the same ! both for the merchant and for the consumer !
Unless the entire planet's supply chain starts using 1 single currency ( either physical or Crypto there is no point... just the way Euro was introduced replacing many physical currencies ..) may be somebody else can rephrase my words. but I hope you get the point
As speculator it is a diff story.. sure more such "virtual assets " to trade better but store of value....h...m jury is still out and by the time it gives it's verdict lot of people would have burned their fingers and life savings

 

[HolyGrailSeeker]

OK so can you show me the logic in using Bitcoin to by my coffee?
- First I have to convert my $/ pounds etc to Bitcoin.. as soon as I do that the price can fluctuate so I take currency risk!
- In case I am earning and spending in same currency why would i take the above risk?
- If you are talking about ease of payment... now a days with technology a tap and go payment takes 3 seconds $ to $!
- as a merchant ( unless you are in a transport hub with lots of international travelers ) why would you have part of your turnover subject to such currency risk?
- Not to add if market is flooded with diff Cryptos... then what? lets say like the 7 major real currencies which are traded, tomorrow 7 Cryptos become popular.. so now the problems remains the same ! both for the merchant and for the consumer !
Unless the entire planet's supply chain starts using 1 single currency ( either physical or Crypto there is no point... just the way Euro was introduced replacing many physical currencies ..) may be somebody else can rephrase my words. but I hope you get the point
As speculator it is a diff story.. sure more such "virtual assets " to trade better but store of value....h...m jury is still out and by the time it gives it's verdict lot of people would have burned their fingers and life savings

If bitcoin gets adopted and its market share is in the trillions it will be way less volatile. As to why people would buy bitcoin is because it is the best returning asset in history, and they see in appreciating even more as crypto and cashless payments get integrated into society.

Right now Starbucks don't accept bitcoin directly but through Bakkt which converts the customer's bitcoin to fiat to purchase the coffee.

As to why merchants would accept cryptos. It is the same as users. They do not need to go through a third party which will take a hefty cut(Like Visa).

I think you believe cryptos are easily replaceable. But the big ones are not. Bitcoin hasn't been usurp 10 years since its inception. Yes, probably it will at some point but it will still remain up there.
Merchants don't have to use all the cryptos just the top few ones.

 

[sle]

If bitcoin gets adopted and its market share is in the trillions it will be way less volatile. As to why people would buy bitcoin is because it is the best returning asset in history, and they see in appreciating even more as crypto and cashless payments get integrated into society.

You do realize that these two statements (low volatility and best returning asset) are contradictory to each other?

PS. While I am net bullish on crypto, crypto-heads underestimate how efficient the modern institutional financial systems are - the argument that the modern financial systems like Fedwire/CHIPS are inferior to bitcoin are largely overblown

 

[traderjo]

If bitcoin gets adopted and its market share is in the trillions it will be way less volatile. As to why people would buy bitcoin is because it is the best returning asset in history, and they see in appreciating even more as crypto and cashless payments get integrated into society.

Right now Starbucks don't accept bitcoin directly but through Bakkt which converts the customer's bitcoin to fiat to purchase the coffee.

As to why merchants would accept cryptos. It is the same as users. They do not need to go through a third party which will take a hefty cut(Like Visa).

I think you believe cryptos are easily replaceable. But the big ones are not. Bitcoin hasn't been usurp 10 years since its inception. Yes, probably it will at some point but it will still remain up there.
Merchants don't have to use all the cryptos just the top few ones.

REPETING THE QUESTION
OK so can you show me the logic in using Bitcoin to by my coffee?
- First I have to convert my $/ pounds etc to Bitcoin.. as soon as I do that the price can fluctuate so I take currency risk!
- In case I am earning and spending in same currency why would i take the above risk?

 

[HolyGrailSeeker]

REPETING THE QUESTION
OK so can you show me the logic in using Bitcoin to by my coffee?
- First I have to convert my $/ pounds etc to Bitcoin.. as soon as I do that the price can fluctuate so I take currency risk!
- In case I am earning and spending in same currency why would i take the above risk?

There is some risk now. But prices can go both upside and downside and you more than likely will see gains giving its long term upwards price trend. You do not have to convert all your life savings to bitcoin. Maybe just $50-$200 to a bitcoin wallet for spending and top up when appropriate. So even in a bad day you are losing $10-$20 tops while on a good year you might see your $200 become $4k.

As I said by bypassing third party fees like visa or paypal, merchants can pass of the discounts to the consumers thereby benefitting us ultimately.

 

[HolyGrailSeeker]

You do realize that these two statements (low volatility and best returning asset) are contradictory to each other?

PS. While I am net bullish on crypto, crypto-heads underestimate how efficient the modern institutional financial systems are - the argument that the modern financial systems like Fedwire/CHIPS are inferior to bitcoin are largely overblown

You need volatility for prices to move. At the start of a low market cap asset the volatilty will be the greatest and taper off as it becomes bigger.

Amazon is many times its ipo price, so we can call it one of the best stocks in terms of returns but its volatility is smaller compared to other stocks now.

 

[Pekelo]

I never seen someone refuting himself so quickly:

You need volatility for prices to move.

Amazon is many times its ipo price, so we can call it one of the best stocks in terms of returns but its volatility is smaller compared to other stocks now.

Since you were wrong in your first assumption AMZN's example was excellent to prove you wrong. I like half of you!