Bitcoin is dead...

[Trader Curt]

Completely wrong. If they pay with a stolen creditcard you are toast. But you are right: the fraude was registered thousands of times in blockchains...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/26/steve-wozniak-says-someone-stole-seven-bitcoins-from-him.html



Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak had some bitcoins stolen from him, The Economic Times in India reported Monday.

"I had seven bitcoins stolen from me through fraud," Wozniak said at the Times' Global Business Summit. "Somebody bought them from me online through a credit card and they cancelled the credit card payment. It was that easy. And it was from a stolen credit card number so you can never get it back."

At today's price of around $10,200 a bitcoin, Wozniak's stolen cryptocurrency are worth roughly $71,400.

Yeah he definitely did that the wrong way. Should have waited a day for the payment to clear before sending. Some people learn the hard way though.

 

[HolyGrailSeeker]

So poor people have internet, a computer or a mobile phone??? But cannot have a FREE bankaccount? LOL.

Yes, they can have a bank account. But, if the bank decides not to let you have your money like in the Greek financial crisis. Good luck.

There are far more people who lost money in crypto's then in the classic currencies and bank accounts. I can reverse a wrong or fraudulent payment, you cannot, you lost that money and don't even know who got that money.

There are far more people who loss money from fiat devaluation. Since 1913 the USD has devalued more than 96%.

I mentioned that a $1 million payment would cost in worst case EUR 65. Is that a high fee? That's 0.0065%, which is cheaper then BTC commission. Within almost entire EU payments are even COMPLETELY FREE OF CHARGES. There is no paperwork and the verification is comparable with you loging in to use your wallet for a payment.If they hack you, you lost everything, if they hack my bank account the bank pays me back at 100%.

The whole world is not EU.

Someone send $194million in btc and it only costs $0.1.

Mosts hacks are people not storing private keys properly. It you run a supercomputer from beginning of universe until now you probably still have not guessed the private keys to a wallet.

Banks can pay you back in a hack because they just print more money which further devalues the currency.

When I said 5 working days I was refering to the payment in USD to HongKong, not to BTC payments. Within EU payments by bank take less then 24 hours. Transfers with Western Union cost around 5.39 EUR and are made within 3 minutes, that's 5 times faster then BTC.

Nano and litecoin are cryptos which have almost instantenous sending speed.

 

[schweiz]

Someone send $194million in btc and it only costs $0.1.

Somebody who can sent $194million does not care about $0.1 or $100 to pay. That's in fact completely irrelevant. It is not his core business.And he has no risk that a Canadian boy pretends to be death in Thailand so that he loses all his coins forever. If my banker does do that the bank pays me back in full. If paying $100 can safe me from that risk I know what to choose.

Nano and litecoin are cryptos which have almost instantenous sending speed.

These small coins have a much higher risk of hacking so you should not use them.
Do you really think a delay of 3 minutes would be important? If that is the case people should quicker chase for their money or speed up their invoicing proces. I never receieved any remarks because my billls are not paid within seconds.

Most arguments that are used pro coins are mostly irrelevant. The most esential arguments are never usezd as they are rather against coins: safety, incredible volatility, impossibility to pay with it in 99% of places, massive manipulation of their value...

 

[HolyGrailSeeker]

View attachment 198245

Somebody who can sent $194million does not care about $0.1 or $100 to pay. That's in fact completely irrelevant. It is not his core business.And he has no risk that a Canadian boy pretends to be death in Thailand so that he loses all his coins forever. If my banker does do that the bank pays me back in full. If paying $100 can safe me from that risk I know what to choose.



These small coins have a much higher risk of hacking so you should not use them.
Do you really think a delay of 3 minutes would be important? If that is the case people should quicker chase for their money or speed up their invoicing proces. I never receieved any remarks because my billls are not paid within seconds.

Most arguments that are used pro coins are mostly irrelevant. The most esential arguments are never usezd as they are rather against coins: safety, incredible volatility, impossibility to pay with it in 99% of places, massive manipulation of their value...

At first you were using fees and transaction times as part of your winning argument. But then after being rebutted flatly, you changed your tune to them being "inconsequential".

Also, like I have said, it is impossible to get hacked if you store your private keys securely. Litecoin has been around almost as long as bitcoin and isn't a small coin with 3 billion over market cap. Banks are not hacked proof either, criminals almost made away with 1 billion in 2016 Bangladesh cyber heist.

Value of coins will stabilize when the whole crypto market matures. By then you will miss out the insane gains already.

 

[Pekelo]

By then you will miss out the insane gains already.

In the history of mankind no easily made or replacable product without copyright protection ever kept its high value for a long time. Bitcoin will not be the first... It is Pokimon for the millenials...

 

[gkishot]

Not if you have gold. Get the point?

There's a reason gold has been a store of value for something like 2000 years. It doesn't "go away" on a fluke.

I can see where this convo is going. Someone will now retort about how you "can't take gold with you" or some shit.

Close-minded people who do not remember history cannot see the problems that can occur by putting all their eggs into a very frail basket that bases it's existence on something that exists through only man-made means, and can only be sustained through man-made means. Meanwhile, gold is still flailing it's arms going, "Oooh ohhh, ME! I'm still here!".

To answer your question..."How likely is all the world's power going out all at once?"

Not likely, sure. But it is a possibility. We're in the shadow (pun?) of a giant and violent fusion reactor that occasionally has a hissy fit and spews out X-class flares that messes up earth. It has caused major blackouts in the USA you know. So when the blackout happens, and your money is stored on something that requires electricity BUT YOU NEED THE MONEY RIGHT NOW, how can you access it when you have no power?

Trump was very unlikely to become president, but shit happens.

And before someone else pipes up about batteries, just shut the pie hole. Because the batteries have already been depleted charging your electric car, running your fridge, and keeping the PC, iPhone, router, air conditioner and all the other conveniences running so you can live your comfortable life. There's no more power left to power the servers with your money on them, in their "soft wallets".

Or, in the chaos, you forgot the password to your hard wallet.

Ooops! Gee, gold doesn't need a password. It still just sits there flailing around going, "Oohh ohhh! I'm still here! Lick me!"

You can't lick a bitcoin, man. If you try to, you'll short out your hard wallet, hehe.

I doubt you would want to own gold in the world w/o power.

 

[gkishot]

Bitcoin is dead. Long live bitcoin!

 

[sle]

I doubt you would want to own gold in the world w/o power.

I was talking to some dude that told me that he keeps a fair chunk of his net worth in gold coins.
- Why coins?
- So when TEOWAWKI happens I can buy canned food and ammo!
- Don't you think it's better to store canned food and ammo then?
<< confused silence >>

 

[d08]

You need money to open up an account, and a bank....

In which countries. In most you require minimal deposit of something like $2. If you have a cell phone and data, you have $2. There are no additional fees. Are you claiming people without a bank anywhere around, meaning probably barely any electricity, are going to pay using bitcoin?

That sounds good sir, but not many people are as fortunate as you are to have free bank transfers with no I.D verification.

You're talking about western countries. In poorer countries depositing to an account or transferring is typically free or with a minimal fee. Never heard of ID verification being asked for small transactions.

Everything you say does not make sense because smartphones cost money, electricity costs money and data costs money. Yet they have no IDs and can't afford to pay anything for a transaction?

 

[Trader Curt]

In which countries. In most you require minimal deposit of something like $2. If you have a cell phone and data, you have $2. There are no additional fees. Are you claiming people without a bank anywhere around, meaning probably barely any electricity, are going to pay using bitcoin?

Not really, a lot of people have to use the public library internet. You're not speaking for everyone, which I'm sure you already know this... Even then, nowadays it's extremely easy to get a smart phone. But I do agree that some places won't be able to have it at all.

Crypto has brought more economy to less economic places. Just read about Venezuela. Crypto has helped it grow economicly. Don't take my word for it, look it up.

You're talking about western countries. In poorer countries depositing to an account or transferring is typically free or with a minimal fee. Never heard of ID verification being asked for small transactions.

Everything you say does not make sense because smartphones cost money, electricity costs money and data costs money. Yet they have no IDs and can't afford to pay anything for a transaction?

Ever heard about borrowing a friends computer? Using a friends cellphone? It's pretty funny how I need to explain this, you must have been pampered your whole life.