Bitcoin is dead...

[Trader Curt]

It's pretty odvious you read all of the news articles for your info. But when an exchange gets hacked it could be hackers or the exchange itself that is doing the hacking. And then that all depends on what kind of security they use. Which will more than likely change in the future.

But that has nothing to do with hacking a blockchain. You're talking about hacking exchanges. Ethereum classic is a new coin that isn't as widely cirrculated as Bitcoin or Ethereum. So hacking those coins would be way more difficult.

I appreciate the bedtime story, but just about everyone already knows hacking is a big barrier with crypto, it's part of the risk.

 

[HolyGrailSeeker]

What makes it not easily replaceable. That's the crux of the issue. Just because many are mining it, does not make it valuable (any more than current market).

I think its intrisic value is its ability to send money all over the world at low costs without a need for a third party and that it is very limited and will continue to grow.

Bitcoin is a very liquid market. So its monetary value its whatever its traded on the market, which is close to $4k as of now.

 

[HolyGrailSeeker]

It's pretty odvious you read all of the news articles for your info. But when an exchange gets hacked it could be hackers or the exchange itself that is doing the hacking. And then that all depends on what kind of security they use. Which will more than likely change in the future.

Im willing to bet 90% of the exchange "hacks" are just the CEOs absconding with the money. Or they gambled with the clients money to profit more but loss more as a result and blame it on hack.

 

[schweiz]

I think its intrisic value is its ability to send money all over the world at low costs without a need for a third party and that it is very limited and will continue to grow.

If I make a USD 1 million payment from The Netherlands to HongKong in USD, it wil cost me EUR 50 (shared cost) plus the difference in currency rate between EUR and USD. If I choose to pay all the costs it will be EUR 15 extra. That's reality. Only EUR 50 and the currency risk (which in BTC is even much higher). Who on earth would use BTC? Average transfertime is 5 working days. In some area in the world payments are even free of ANY cost (EURO zone with IBAN numbers).
Cost is 0.1% of the amount with a minimum of EUR 6 and a maximum of EUR 50.

If I would do the same with BTC I would have to buy first BTC with my EUR (at what rate and cost?) and then I have to make the transfer in BTC. The receiving party has to convert these BTC again into USD (at what rate and cost?). And how much will BTC move between start and finish of the transaction with the volatility that is much higher then the classic currencies?

 

[Trader Curt]

If I make a USD 1 million payment from The Netherlands to HongKong in USD, it wil cost me EUR 50 (shared cost) plus the difference in currency rate between EUR and USD. If I choose to pay all the costs it will be EUR 15 extra. That's reality. Only EUR 50 and the currency risk (which in BTC is even much higher). Who on earth would use BTC? Average transfertime is 5 working days. In some area in the world payments are even free of ANY cost (EURO zone with IBAN numbers).
Cost is 0.1% of the amount with a minimum of EUR 6 and a maximum of EUR 50.

If I would do the same with BTC I would have to buy first BTC with my EUR (at what rate and cost?) and then I have to make the transfer in BTC. The receiving party has to convert these BTC again into USD (at what rate and cost?). And how much will BTC move between start and finish of the transaction with the volatility that is much higher then the classic currencies?

Who on earth would use Bitcoin?

Ah lets see, people in poor countries that can't afford identification. People in poor countries that don't have a bank account. People looking to safely store their funds that don't want pressure from the banks. People who are sick and tired of all the paperwork, the I.D. verification, and the high fees associated with banking transfers.

I'd much rather send money in the privacy of my own home than go to money gram or western union, and be hassled for identification, be hassled for fees, and be hassled for the paperwork that goes along with it.

Average transfer time is not 5 days, you wouldn't even know because you've never made a transaction. Transfer time is about 15 minutes.

My advice to you is to keep using your banking system. No one in here is telling you to try crypto, neither does anyone care what you use. Have a great day

 

[schweiz]

Ah lets see, people in poor countries that can't afford identification. People in poor countries that don't have a bank account.

So poor people have internet, a computer or a mobile phone??? But cannot have a FREE bankaccount? LOL.

People looking to safely store their funds that don't want pressure from the banks.

There are far more people who lost money in crypto's then in the classic currencies and bank accounts. I can reverse a wrong or fraudulent payment, you cannot, you lost that money and don't even know who got that money.

People who are sick and tired of all the paperwork, the I.D. verification, and the high fees associated with banking transfers.

I mentioned that a $1 million payment would cost in worst case EUR 65. Is that a high fee? That's 0.0065%, which is cheaper then BTC commission. Within almost entire EU payments are even COMPLETELY FREE OF CHARGES. There is no paperwork and the verification is comparable with you loging in to use your wallet for a payment.If they hack you, you lost everything, if they hack my bank account the bank pays me back at 100%.

Average transfer time is not 5 days, you wouldn't even know because you've never made a transaction. Transfer time is about 15 minutes.

When I said 5 working days I was refering to the payment in USD to HongKong, not to BTC payments. Within EU payments by bank take less then 24 hours. Transfers with Western Union cost around 5.39 EUR and are made within 3 minutes, that's 5 times faster then BTC.

My advice to you is to keep using your banking system. No one in here is telling you to try crypto, neither does anyone care what you use. Have a great day

Same for you.

 

[d08]

I'm also curious who are these poor people that can't have a bank account. Many choose to not have a bank account because they are not confident going to a bank but they won't be using cryptos on smartphones either. They just deal in cash and if sending money in local currency at a bank, there's a cost about $1 in most countries or it's free. They literally don't care about doing it in their own home, it's a 1st world thing.

 

[Trader Curt]

So poor people have internet, a computer or a mobile phone??? But cannot have a FREE bankaccount? LOL.

You need money to open up an account, and a bank....

There are far more people who lost money in crypto's then in the classic currencies and bank accounts. I can reverse a wrong or fraudulent payment, you cannot, you lost that money and don't even know who got that money.

And who's fault do you think it is that they lost their own password? And there is no such thing as a fraudulent payment on the blockchain when every single transaction is recorded more than a thousand times over...

I mentioned that a $1 million payment would cost in worst case EUR 65. Is that a high fee? That's 0.0065%, which is cheaper then BTC commission. Within almost entire EU payments are even COMPLETELY FREE OF CHARGES. There is no paperwork and the verification is comparable with you loging in to use your wallet for a payment.If they hack you, you lost everything, if they hack my bank account the bank pays me back at 100%.

That sounds good sir, but not many people are as fortunate as you are to have free bank transfers with no I.D verification.

 

[schweiz]

And who's fault do you think it is that they lost their own password? And there is no such thing as a fraudulent payment on the blockchain when every single transaction is recorded more than a thousand times over...

Completely wrong. If they pay with a stolen creditcard you are toast. But you are right: the fraude was registered thousands of times in blockchains...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/26/steve-wozniak-says-someone-stole-seven-bitcoins-from-him.html



Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak had some bitcoins stolen from him, The Economic Times in India reported Monday.

"I had seven bitcoins stolen from me through fraud," Wozniak said at the Times' Global Business Summit. "Somebody bought them from me online through a credit card and they cancelled the credit card payment. It was that easy. And it was from a stolen credit card number so you can never get it back."

At today's price of around $10,200 a bitcoin, Wozniak's stolen cryptocurrency are worth roughly $71,400.

 

[sle]

If dividends are not included, trading is largely a zero sum game. Someone else's profits is someone else losses. So saying that 99% profit isn't realized or majority loss money is just clueless because those must profits goes to someone else's pockets.

Not true. If you are trading assets (as opposed to derivatives or commodities), it's not a zero sum game. It is, however, a zero sum game with respect to the total market (in absence of transaction costs). E.g. if the US stock market has grown 10% in the last month, some traders had outperformed it and some under performed it, but the net result across all participants is still the total growth of the market, not zero.