Bitcoin is dead...

[d08]

Bitcoin's value is in the brand. You can generate a clone coin but the network adoption (i.e. merchants, users others) won't be there. That is why most of the cryptocurrencies clones are worthless or worth much less.

You cannot go to a store and pay with a gold bar, but I can assure, it has significant value. The value of anything, whether it be a share of Amazon or a pack of cigarette is exactly what another person/entity would pay for it given the time and location. A pack of cigarette has a higher value in the prison than in the outside world.

Bitcoin's value according to the market is ~$4,000. It's not an opinion. If you have one, you can sell it for that much and if you don't have one, that's what it will cost you to acquire one. Other cryptocurrencies have their own market price.

No-one has disputed anything you said. I was replying to @HolyGrailSeeker saying Bitcoin will go to 20k and then 1 million. Ridiculous. I hope he has literally sold everything he has and bought bitcoin, I mean it's a sure thing according to him.

You can't use Bitcoin almost anywhere. Listing a few businesses here and there don't make it an usable currency. I'm talking about Visa or cash equivalence. Therefore a competitor could easily destroy them. They are not like Amazon at all.

 

[johnarb]

No-one has disputed anything you said. I was replying to @HolyGrailSeeker saying Bitcoin will go to 20k and then 1 million. Ridiculous. I hope he has literally sold everything he has and bought bitcoin, I mean it's a sure thing according to him.

You can't use Bitcoin almost anywhere. Listing a few businesses here and there don't make it an usable currency. I'm talking about Visa or cash equivalence. Therefore a competitor could easily destroy them. They are not like Amazon at all.

I don't know about $1M for 1 bitcoin, but I believe bitcoin, barring any major network disruption (i.e. software bugs or what not) can go to $100K or higher.

You know, someone asked me in 2013 how high I thought bitcoin will go, and I said possibly $10K, and of course with a shared laughter afterwards. You can go in the forums and search old posts, and you'll see how ridiculous $10K for 1 bitcoin would have sounded like.

I didn't fully believe it, myself, as I didn't sell everything I had and went into enormous debt to buy as much bitcoin as I could.

Speaking about the US, I've used a bitcoin ATM and it works so well I was enticed to use it a few more times at different locations, for educational research purposes. You can take out $500, with nothing more than an SMS-capable phone number. I'll say that's a cash equivalence, wouldn't you say?

https://www.coincloudatm.com/

I heard there are over 4000 bitcoin ATM's worldwide, but can't verify.

Also, I got this from one of my google news feed:

https://bitcoinist.com/philippines-union-bank-bitcoin-atm/

 

[d08]

I don't know about $1M for 1 bitcoin, but I believe bitcoin, barring any major network disruption (i.e. software bugs or what not) can go to $100K or higher.

You know, someone asked me in 2013 how high I thought bitcoin will go, and I said possibly $10K, and of course with a shared laughter afterwards. You can go in the forums and search old posts, and you'll see how ridiculous $10K for 1 bitcoin would have sounded like.

I didn't fully believe it, myself, as I didn't sell everything I had and went into enormous debt to buy as much bitcoin as I could.

Speaking about the US, I've used a bitcoin ATM and it works so well I was enticed to use it a few more times at different locations, for educational research purposes. You can take out $500, with nothing more than an SMS-capable phone number. I'll say that's a cash equivalence, wouldn't you say?

https://www.coincloudatm.com/

I heard there are over 4000 bitcoin ATM's worldwide, but can't verify.

Also, I got this from one of my google news feed:

https://bitcoinist.com/philippines-union-bank-bitcoin-atm/

Right. That's not wide enough though, 4000 globally is nothing. For example, I know of no-one who has paid with bitcoin even once and I'm in my 30s.
I'm not suggesting it will never become useful but that it's a long way away. Some crypto will be widely adopted but I figure it has yet to be released.

 

[HolyGrailSeeker]

Future will have to proof that to be right. Instability for stocks is completelly different from instability of a currency. You mix up two entirely different things.

"Unstable" in the case of bitcoin means that today you buy something at BTC $4,000 and next month you have to sell it at BTC $2,000. So that instability makes it impossible to use for financial transactions. That's why I compared it with these horrible currencies in a previous post. Nobody wants to do business with a "currency" that is as unstable as bitcoins.

In these countries people refuse their own currencies and replace them by strong currencies:

• Iran rials
• Vietnam dongs
• Sao tome dobra
• Indonesia rupiah
• Belarus roubles
• Laos kips
• Guinea frans
• Zambian kwacha
• ...

as they have the same problem as bitcoins. In no time you can lose all you have. You are never sure what you can buy with your bitcoin. People want stability for their hard earned money.

And we don't need really bitcoins as with the existing currencies we can do all financial transactions we wish and we always know the real cost of it while bitcoins are more a lottery.
To avoid that lottery all your income, expenses, investments... should be in bitcoins to neutralize the volatility of bitcoin price. Each switch from bitcoin to any other real currency would bring real financial risks.

It will be more stable once its widely used and reached something like a million.

Something this early cannot be stable because market cap is so small it can be easily manipulated.

Also funny how you talk about currencies, yet Venezuelans are hungrily buying bitcoin to hedge against their rapidly declining fiat.

 

[HolyGrailSeeker]

Any of the coins have significant value only if they are used widely. If I can step into any store and pay by some crypto, it has value. But this is so far from reality for now.

Amazon's value is mostly the brand. You cannot create an instant copy of it, offer same quality service and expect to have the same customer base.

On top of that, launching a coin seems to be extremely easy and can be done in weeks if not days. Try launching a global business with billions of revenue in days.

Amazon did not become Amazon till it became big. Everything starts out from something.

Launching a coin is probably easy (I don't have IT background so I wouldn't know), but whether the coin has value is another thing. Since most miners are mining bitcoin and it has the longest and most robust blockchain, it is therefore the most valuable and can't be easily replaced.

 

[HolyGrailSeeker]

No-one has disputed anything you said. I was replying to @HolyGrailSeeker saying Bitcoin will go to 20k and then 1 million. Ridiculous. I hope he has literally sold everything he has and bought bitcoin, I mean it's a sure thing according to him.

You can't use Bitcoin almost anywhere. Listing a few businesses here and there don't make it an usable currency. I'm talking about Visa or cash equivalence. Therefore a competitor could easily destroy them. They are not like Amazon at all.

Im not saying it will. Im just saying a big if, if it stays based on current trajectory then mathematics says it will reach 1mil by 2027 give or take.

Everything starts out small. It may one day not be widely used currency but it is still an excellent hedge against fiat.

 

[d08]

Since most miners are mining bitcoin and it has the longest and most robust blockchain, it is therefore the most valuable and can't be easily replaced.

What makes it not easily replaceable. That's the crux of the issue. Just because many are mining it, does not make it valuable (any more than current market).

 

[schweiz]

Maybe read this: Blockchains Getting Hacked

 

[Trader Curt]

Maybe read this: Blockchains Getting Hacked

Ethereum Classic got hacked. Not multiple blockchains like the article says. And even so, now founders can ramp up security.

 

[schweiz]

Ethereum Classic got hacked. Not multiple blockchains like the article says. And even so, now founders can ramp up security.

They told already many times that security is no issue. Reality is that all the time coins get hacked and people lose money.
"In total, hackers have stolen nearly $2 billion worth of cryptocurrency since the beginning of 2017, mostly from exchanges, and that’s just what has been revealed publicly. These are not just opportunistic lone attackers, either. Sophisticated cybercrime organizations are now doing it too: analytics firm Chainalysis recently said that just two groups, both of which are apparently still active, may have stolen a combined $1 billion from exchanges."

Makes me think about comical Ali from Bagdad.