Bitcoin Investment Trust (GBTC)

I make my decisions and you make yours.... My primary reason not to trust the no-name exchange and the current process is that the current structure has failed numerous times, leaving investors with $0. Sure,,, maybe the current structure has improved, but I am not willing to take that risk with my money. You have chosen differently.

I am amazed, that I seem to be the sole voice airing out these concerns? oh well

There is no right or wrong answer, it is a personal decision for all of us... how, where, what we will invest in.
 
MrMuppet said:
John, I dont get it. Why dont you just do your homework, buy BTC, store it on an airgap hardwallet and forget it.

You just dont know how this stuff works, man.
You trust IB more than yourself?? WTF?!

IB can blow up. Government can seize your account. Hell, who would have thought REFCO would go belly up?

The only thing that cant ever blow up is your private key. Don't be such a sheep...

You don't even want to trade, you just want to hold. And there's nothing safer than a hard wallet...and you want to hand over your money to a broker??? Why???
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Bitcoin is a very hard concept to accept for many. People want the comfort of someone holding their funds/assets for them so they have someone to blame when bad things happen and most importantly, they have a legal recourse and government backing.

I have a few dollars worth of cryptos at online exchanges. Majority of crypto investors are the same although many newcomers are starting to store their cryptos on exchanges due to "insert excuses here". Oh well.

Eight videos on bitcoin at Khan academy https://www.khanacademy.org/economi...oney-and-banking/bitcoin/v/bitcoin-what-is-it
 
John, if after all of those posts you still don't understand that you neither keep your fiat nor your krypto money on the exchange, I just give up. Why would you buy BTC when you don't understand it?


I mean, how are you still writing that you don't like to have your money on an exchange (which I understand) when you were told multible times that you don't need to?!

I hold some kryptos and I don't give a flying fuck if an exchange goes belly up. You know why? I store my stuff offline.


You deposit USD to an exchange, trade into BTC and withdraw BTC to a Trezor or Ledger hardware wallet. Put that in your safe at home, boom safest place on earth. Nobody but you can touch it. And even if they steal it, you can still have access to it. How is that less safe than IB.


I mean, of course. If you don't have any idea what you're doing, then it may seem a little strange. But you can educate yourself and try stuff with a couple of bucks.


If you don't want to educate youself, I have news for you: You're just lazy and lazy guys always pay the price ;)


Really, John, no offense but when I read stuff like your posts, I wish I was a vendor or had stuff to sell. You're the perfect customer..
 
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John9999 said:
I make my decisions and you make yours.... My primary reason not to trust the no-name exchange and the current process is that the current structure has failed numerous times, leaving investors with $0. Sure,,, maybe the current structure has improved, but I am not willing to take that risk with my money. You have chosen differently.

I am amazed, that I seem to be the sole voice airing out these concerns? oh well

There is no right or wrong answer, it is a personal decision for all of us... how, where, what we will invest in.
More...

I'm with you John9999. I understand bitcoin MrMuppet but my preference also would be to trade a derivative of a cryptocurrency and not the cryptocurrency itself. The odds of a regulated exchange blowing up are infinitesimal compared to a cryptocurrency exchange getting hacked. And you must take on exchange risk if you want to trade cryptocurrency (rather than just hodl).
 
Well, if you want to trade...thats a completely different story. But he said he wants to HODL.

And guess what? Even if you want to trade, it's better to use leverage and keep a minimum margin on the OTC - exchange than to use the "official" products.

GBTC is trash, the CME - future will be trash if they don't lift the circuit breakers...I mean, we had a 10% drop in like 5 minutes and lost 20% over the course of a couple of hours.

If you as the IB trader want to stick your finger in there, fine. I don't know if you ever had a short term position during a halt...not nice.

But John doesn't want to trade. He wants to HODL. And in this case, your counterparty risk is literally zero (cause no counterparty), if you keep your junk offline ;)

I mean the reason why I have coins is because I don't trust IB and I don't trust banks. There is a talk to lift deposit insurance here in the EU. Where do you think my money is safer? In my checking account or in a paperwallet I stored in a place only I know?

I
 
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MrMuppet said:
Well, if you want to trade...thats a completely different story. But he said he wants to HODL.

And guess what? Even if you want to trade, it's better to use leverage and keep a minimum margin on the OTC - exchange than to use the "official" products.

GBTC is trash, the CME - future will be trash if they don't lift the circuit breakers...I mean, we had a 10% drop in like 5 minutes and lost 20% over the course of a couple of hours.

If you as the IB trader want to stick your finger in there, fine. I don't know if you ever had a short term position during a halt...not nice.

But John doesn't want to trade. He wants to HODL. And in this case, your counterparty risk is literally zero (cause no counterparty), if you keep your junk offline ;)

I mean the reason why I have coins is because I don't trust IB and I don't trust banks. There is a talk to lift deposit insurance here in the EU. Where do you think my money is safer? In my checking account or in a paperwallet I stored in a place only I know?

I
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What if you lose your paperwallet? Stranger things have been known to happen.
 
MrMuppet said:
Well, if you want to trade...thats a completely different story. But he said he wants to HODL.

And guess what? Even if you want to trade, it's better to use leverage and keep a minimum margin on the OTC - exchange than to use the "official" products.

GBTC is trash, the CME - future will be trash if they don't lift the circuit breakers...I mean, we had a 10% drop in like 5 minutes and lost 20% over the course of a couple of hours.

If you as the IB trader want to stick your finger in there, fine. I don't know if you ever had a short term position during a halt...not nice.

But John doesn't want to trade. He wants to HODL. And in this case, your counterparty risk is literally zero (cause no counterparty), if you keep your junk offline ;)

I mean the reason why I have coins is because I don't trust IB and I don't trust banks. There is a talk to lift deposit insurance here in the EU. Where do you think my money is safer? In my checking account or in a paperwallet I stored in a place only I know?

I
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Also, he mentions in his first post:

Anyway, I just was not comfortable investing/trading BTC on the no-name exchanges and using a wallet.
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implying that trading was a possibility. I realize later he talks about buy and hold, but it is easy to say you are going to hodl, but harder in practice due to bitcoin's volatility. If he wants to have the option of trading it, then a derivative makes sense.
 
sprstpd.... thankyou,,, finally someone agrees with me on the risks of the exchange/wallet situation that exist. Nobody here wants to even mention Mt Gotix, or the other fiascos/hacks that have already occurred.

MrMuppet, I believe you do not live in the USA, so you may have a trust issue with banks there that we do not need to worry about (much) in the states.

right now, I am leaning towards waiting for a true ETF, or even mutual fund to be available. I do not like what I believe the Maintenance requirement will be on the Futures, GBTC has it's valuation issue.
 
To be very honest with you, I think you should wait one or two years untill the market is a little more established.

Hell, it might be that Bitcoin goes the way of MySpace and in one year another coin is rank one.

I just don't see any way for you right now how you could trade or invest in this stuff in a "safe" way using regulated products.

So you better watch it for a while and do nothing untill regulation fixed all the lose ends. Returns might be lower, but this is better than diving head first into something you aren't comfortable with.

Just don't take any bad compromises like GBTC
 
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