BitCoin - Intellectual Fraud or a Stunning Idea??

[benwm]

"The prosecutor overseeing his case accused him (Bernard von NotHaus, Liberty Dollar creator) of 'domestic terrorism' for using them (Liberty Dollars) to undermine the government."

"Mr. von NotHaus claims he never meant the Liberty Dollar to be used as legal tender. He says he created it as 'a private voluntary currency' for those conducting business outside the government’s purview."

"In his own defense, Mr. von NotHaus testified about a 'philanthropic mission' to combat devaluation with a currency based on precious metals and asserted that he was not involved in 'a radical armed offense against the government or their money.' "

"...It was, of course, to no avail; and in 2011, a jury found him guilty after a 90-minute deliberation."
---

The BitCoin geeks will soon be living in prison or in exile if this thing starts getting more coverage on Bloomberg TV.

 

[Pekelo]

I am not necessary against virtual currencies, but I have 3 grievances with Bitcoin, what is usually not mentioned:

1. The original very uneven distribution of the coins. So if it is a currency, why don't we spread it out evenly among people, or would give out as a reward for doing something good. (like blood donation) Instead we have a very few people in the beginning who gets the easy coins mined and they just wait for the rest of the people later to show up and making them rich.

This is similar when a new company CEO keeps the majority of the stocks, and let the little guys later coming in making his stocks' value skyrocket. Now if it had been widely announced right from the beginning (and an obscure message board is not a world wide announcement) so people have the choice to decide and participate right from the start, then it would be different.

2. The money supply as it is designed. Generally that is not how money supply works. Bitcoin is designed to be released with an ever slowing rate. But what if the needs of the users is different? Any currency's task is to be an exchange tool for products and services without much change over time. If the economy is growing, more money is needed, if it is contracting, the money supply needs to be curtailed. (in a perfect world)
This function is not built into the Bitcoin whatsoever. They can't release the coins much faster than it is designed and there is no way of cutting back on the supply either....

3. Every currency during its history suffers volume loss due to loss of the physical money/coins. Ship sunk with gold on it? Well, it was lost for a few hundred years at least. Your HD died? The bitcoins are gone. More users are there, the more natural loss will occur. This is not addressed in the design...
(I think bitcoins can be lost by sending it to the wrong address)

 

[sprstpd]

Quote from Pekelo:

Instead we have a very few people in the beginning who gets the easy coins mined and they just wait for the rest of the people later to show up and making them rich.

I could be mistaken, but I thought there was a video of one of the original designers of bitcoin saying he had already sold all of his bitcoins in the $2 range. I'm not sure you can say for a fact that the original miners ever thought the bitcoin value would be this high.

 

[Pekelo]

Quote from sprstpd:

I'm not sure you can say for a fact that the original miners ever thought the bitcoin value would be this high.

It is not really the valuation, but the fact that the early birds get the easy worms. If it is a currency for the masses, why a small group of people get to hold a large chunk of the currency, based on being first, not necessary on merit or designed distribution?
(unless you call being first a merit, but it is also valid for Ponzis)

There is a program where you can check the usage (history of coins basicly), and a huge chunk of the early coins were never used or transfered. I would love to know the reason for that.

 

[achilles28]

Quote from Pekelo:



I know there are a lot people emotionally invested in Bitcoin who will defend it against any of these criticisms, but the fact is that someday, when a new cryptocurrency comes along that addresses some or all of them well, Bitcoin will begin to sunset. I would love to see more people talking about what this future cryptocurrency should look like, and working to organize it.

I enjoy reading all the supportive posts here, and everyone involved in making Bitcoin a success has a lot to crow about, but Napster wasn't the be-all, end-all of P2P file distribution, and Bitcoin won't be the be-all, end-all cryptocurrency. A little more skepticism and a little more impatience with its flaws would suit the community better, IMO."

I wholeheartedly agree. It's not "Bitcoin" or "Litecoin"...but the concept. A bankless currency. And this concept WORKS:

55 million USD changed hands via Bitcoin yesterday (24 hour period).

Rolling average over the past month is 20 Million USD, a day.
http://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume-usd

In some cases, counterparties are transacting millions of dollars, via Bitcoin, in a single transaction....
http://blockchain.info/largest-recent-transactions

This is revolutionary.

 

[gip3]

This is kind of silly, isn't it? There was currency before there were banks. And they weren't all metal based either (sea shell money for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_money) - or, better yet, tuna cans and cigarettes in prison today .

Bankless currency as an revolution is just ignorant of monetary history.

Quote from achilles28:

I wholeheartedly agree. It's not "Bitcoin" or "Litecoin"...but the concept. A bankless currency. And this concept WORKS:
....

This is revolutionary.

 

[achilles28]

Yea, just like 1776 wasn't a revolution because the Greeks and Romans practiced democracy ~2000 years earlier.....

Are you that blind??

 

[gkishot]

Surprisingly there is a demand for the supply of mathematically generated units.

 

[gip3]

Quote from achilles28:

Yea, just like 1776 wasn't a revolution because the Greeks and Romans practiced democracy ~2000 years earlier.....

Are you that blind??

The romans... practiced democracy? This speaks exactly to your ignorance of history in general (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_elements_of_Roman_Republic to see how limiting it was and far from democracy in the 1776 sense; And might I remind you that the romans then spent about a thousand years after the republican era in its imperial era?).

In any case, you fail to address the fact that bankless currencies exist even TODAY - in prisons, in informal bartering, and all the other mundane corners of our economic lives.

 

[achilles28]

Split hairs much? Technically, America is a republic too. Get over yourself.

Tuna cans and honey buns aren't swapping hands in prison at the tune of 55 Million USD a day