BitCoin - Intellectual Fraud or a Stunning Idea??

[achilles28]

Quote from Algo_Design_Kid:

Really?

Do I need to keep linking the logarithmic chart to shut you up?

Not to be mean, but you sound like my dad. "This is all a ponzi-scheme, blah blah blah." It seems the older you get, the more you know about new technologies and future implications and the less you need to research. Btw, I say this in all fun, because BTC could drop to $50 at any time.

But seriously, start thinking for yourself and research BTC.

Not to throw gas on the fire, but I've noticed ET is filled with old guys, set in their ways, that can't admit the politicians and system they supported their entire lives, is essentially, a corrupt piece of shit. They can't admit they're wrong.

In fairness, there's a few older guys on here that are aware, and are patriots.

 

[sle]

Quote from achilles28:

If the US Treasury capped the total supply of dollars at 21 million (digital and fiat) at it's inception, would the US Dollar be more scarce, or less scarce, then it is today? Real easy, isn't it?

Being divisible doesn't make something less scarce. Gold is divisible. Does that mean gold isn't scarce?? Palladium, silver, platinum and oil are nearly infinitely divisible. Does that not make them "scarce"? What is "scarcity"? Shall we have theoretical debate now about semantics?

The whole point, in colloquial terms, all these distinctions are relative. Bitcoin versus fiat. Scarcity versus plenty etc. And it's unnecessary to go any further than that, imo.

As for it's value, I think you drastically underestimate it's utility. There's alot more going on here, than people have grasped..

Store of value is determined by more then just scarcity. The two key factors are utility (what can I do with it aside from storing it) an global perception (I.e. who else thinks that this is a store of value). Gold (or most other PMs) have industrial /consumer uses and millennia of history as a store of value. Bitcoin, despite scarcity, has no other use and its perception as a monetary unit is driven by a small group. How does one go from here to make it a proper currency? Well, you'd need to make it stable and liquid, but most of all, you'd need it to be fungible for everyday goods and services. Without those, bitcoin is nothing but a bearer promissory note of uncertain value. Just like pokemon dolls or "limited edition collectable thimbles".

 

[Algo_Design_Kid]

Quote from sle:

Store of value is determined by more then just scarcity. The two key factors are utility (what can I do with it aside from storing it) an global perception (I.e. who else thinks that this is a store of value). Gold (or most other PMs) have industrial /consumer uses and millennia of history as a store of value. Bitcoin, despite scarcity, has no other use and its perception as a monetary unit is driven by a small group. How does one go from here to make it a proper currency? Well, you'd need to make it stable and liquid, but most of all, you'd need it to be fungible for everyday goods and services. Without those, bitcoin is nothing but a bearer promissory note of uncertain value. Just like pokemon dolls or "limited edition collectable thimbles".

You can pay your property taxes now in BTC and can also buy anything you want on the internet with BTC virtual credit cards. More and more is in development everyday.

This is just like the beginning of the internet. At first, there was nothing to do but look up .jpeg's of shitty resolution boobies..

 

[achilles28]

Quote from sle:

Without those, bitcoin is nothing but a bearer promissory note of uncertain value. Just like pokemon dolls or "limited edition collectable thimbles".

You don't get it. Bitcoin is backed by:

1) superior transferability
2) superior privacy
3) superior safety
4) scarcity.

Those intangibles are what gives it it's value. Because those intangibles are VALUED by the marketplace. I'm sorry you can't understand that.

In no way, is Bitcoin anything like cabbage patch dolls or pokemon toys. That's a complete joke and shows you have no grasp of the matter.

As for Bitcoin having no other physical utility than a shared-psychological store of value. Yes, much like fiat. Who would have known.

 

[sle]

Quote from Algo_Design_Kid:

You can pay your property taxes now in BTC and can also buy anything you want on the internet with BTC virtual credit cards. More and more is in development everyday.

This is just like the beginning of the internet. At first, there was nothing to do but look up .jpeg's of shitty resolution boobies..

The problem is that unlike internet which had "parents" this has a few hackers behind it. The whole hoopla about it being "bankless" currency is going to be its demise to - something that's transacting also has to be borrowed and lent. Also, what's more important, what prevents me or you of building another, completing digital currency with similar features? Why bitcoin and not litecoin or something else?

Ps. You obviously weren't there when internet started

 

[Algo_Design_Kid]

Quote from sle:

The problem is that unlike internet which had "parents" this has a few hackers behind it. The whole hoopla about it being "bankless" currency is going to be its demise to - something that's transacting also has to be borrowed and lent. Also, what's more important, what prevents me or you of building another, completing digital currency with similar features? Why bitcoin and not litecoin or something else?

Ps. You obviously weren't there when internet started

You can borrow BTC @ around 15% I think right now on Bitfinex, IIRC? Check around, but it's true.

There is nothing stopping you from making another currency. Just like there is nothing stopping you from making another E-Bay. Good luck with that, though.

Btw, I did diversify 3 of my BTC into Litecoin. I hear that Mt. Gox is going to start to let you trade LTC on their exchange. Whether this is BS or not, not a huge deal, but I rather get in before the bigger players can. The only place I know of that sells LTC now is btc-e.com


EDIT:

https://twitter.com/MtGox/status/319785584468062208

 

[achilles28]

Quote from sle:

The whole hoopla about it being "bankless" currency is going to be its demise to - something that's transacting also has to be borrowed and lent. Also, what's more important, what prevents me or you of building another, completing digital currency with similar features? Why bitcoin and not litecoin or something else?

Ps. You obviously weren't there when internet started

So I can't borrow gold? Or silver? Or oil? However did empires function before 1600 AD? I guess the world never existed before fractional reserve banking came around? BTC are actively lent and borrowed.

Crypto-currencies being debt-free is EXACTLY why Bitcoin (and others) will revolutionize and other-throw this pos fractional reserve monopoly we have now. Debt-based fiat means bankers suck a continual vig off every dollar in circulation. Debt-free currencies eliminate these parasites and greatly reduce the interest burden society is forced to carry, at any one time. That means more money circulates in the REAL economy, and everyone is alot better off. Bankers are essentially parasitical middle-men - they collect a vig for lending us our own money. It's a cancer. Perhaps you don't understand that either? Where's Randomcapital.

 

[sle]

Quote from achilles28:

You don't get it. Bitcoin is backed by:

1) superior transferability
2) superior privacy
3) superior safety
4) scarcity.

Those intangibles are what gives it it's value. Because those intangibles are VALUED by the marketplace. I'm sorry you can't understand that.

In no way, is Bitcoin anything like cabbage patch dolls or pokemon toys. That's a complete joke and shows you have no grasp of the matter.

As for Bitcoin having no other physical utility than a shared-psychological store of value. Yes, much like fiat. Who would have known.

All of those features are features of a precious metals or diamonds. Why am I not putting all of my net worth into uncut diamonds and bullion? Those intangibles so far are valued by the black market mainly. You do know that cigarettes are a currency in Russian prisons since they posses most of those properties. But at least cigarettes have consumption value.

Bitcoin is akin with pokemon toys in the same way as any other limited supply assets where both parties view it as a store of value because of its perceived scarcity vs the demand. Once the demand is not there, the asset ceases to act as a store of value.

I think bitcoin will have its niche, mainly in illegal trade. I doubt it will replace gold as the main safety asset or become a mainstream currency.

 

[atticus]

I am out today at 135. There are sites that allow for shorting, OTC options, etc. (MPEx), but adding incrementally to counter-party risk.

 

[Algo_Design_Kid]

Quote from sle:

All of those features are features of a precious metals or diamonds. Why am I not putting all of my net worth into uncut diamonds and bullion? Those intangibles so far are valued by the black market mainly. You do know that cigarettes are a currency in Russian prisons since they posses most of those properties. But at least cigarettes have consumption value.

Bitcoin is akin with pokemon toys in the same way as any other limited supply assets where both parties view it as a store of value because of its perceived scarcity vs the demand. Once the demand is not there, the asset ceases to act as a store of value.

I think bitcoin will have its niche, mainly in illegal trade. I doubt it will replace gold as the main safety asset or become a mainstream currency.

Where can you get gold that isn't "on the books"? Other than private sellers, I mean? If you go to a pawn shop to buy gold, do they copy your ID? I honestly have no idea as I have never made these transactions.

Do you also think gold is easily transferable? How do you mean, exactly? I think BTC is a lot easier to transact in, personally. I honestly think you are seriously underestimating the future potential (and current).