Bitcoin future (BRR) at IB, 200,000 USD margin requirement?

[Robert Morse]

GRULSTMRNN,

For the BTC, we require accounts starting with $200,000. We offer 2X exchange margin for both long or short. We charge higher commissions for these than our posted rate but lower than most FCMs. We do not offer discounted margin for day trading them.

 

[GRULSTMRNN]

Thanks but not interested. Where do you guys stand on margin regarding futures and options spreads?

GRULSTMRNN,

For the BTC, we require accounts starting with $200,000. We offer 2X exchange margin for both long or short. We charge higher commissions for these than our posted rate but lower than most FCMs. We do not offer discounted margin for day trading them.

 

[Robert Morse]

Thanks but not interested. Where do you guys stand on margin regarding futures and options spreads?

SPAN margin for margin but limits on position size to monitor risk for naked sellers.

 

[MrMuppet]

I transfered around 500k from one of my main accounts to my sub accounts so thank you I don't need coin base or other shenanigans to have my account hacked or assets stolen outright or whatever else we read in the news every other day about crypto exchanges and wallets.

I have 15 years pro experience, am not a US citizen, certainly don't dabble in IB but perhaps you can clarify alongside some numbers and calcs how 200k or more makes sense?

Thank you

So just because one guy isn't a complete idiot it makes sense for IB to lower margin standarts for everybody?

If they did...I'd short their stock right away.


Edit: Nobody cares about your pro experience, in crypto you are still a noob, period. It seems you have not experienced the crazy shit the market can throw at you out of nowhere, otherwise you would beg for a even higher margin on those contracts.

In addition, don't asume that calendar spreads are less risky than outright, because they are definitely not and I really hope IB does not PM these.

Also, without access to the 24/7 I would not even think about touching the CME stuff if you use any meaningful leverage


Take it easy cowboy...otherwise your 500k are gone in an instant.

 

[MattZ]

Care to explain? I did not get what they use if not probabilities, exchange guidelines, and prices

Risk managers would go by the exchange margins most of the time. However, a specific customer could have a large concentration of contracts and that in that case some risk managers may approach him/her and ask for additional cushion. In the case of naked options, BTC or other situations that are not regular they may apply some discretion which is above and beyond the exchange requirements. Margins BTW were never an indication of the risk that the underlying asset has. To me, every exchange is a sales organization that pushes a product, and margins are set to attract speculators to trade that product.

 

[GRULSTMRNN]

You are an idiot. I asked you clearly to explain how you get to the claim of 200k not being sufficient margin for a contract that trades less than 65k notional. Even today's sudden 1500 point move would not even have depleted margin by any meaningful amount.

But guess what, here is what did happen. The joke is on you. Please don't participate in something you don't seem to grasp. Enjoy your coinbase account, moron.

PS my 500k account is less than 6 percent of my total account balance across all sub accounts. You seem to have serious reading comprehension issues, I thought Germans are better at attention to detail. Nothing what I stated relates whatsoever to being a gun slinger.

So just because one guy isn't a complete idiot it makes sense for IB to lower margin standarts for everybody?

If they did...I'd short their stock right away.


Edit: Nobody cares about your pro experience, in crypto you are still a noob, period. It seems you have not experienced the crazy shit the market can throw at you out of nowhere, otherwise you would beg for a even higher margin on those contracts.

In addition, don't asume that calendar spreads are less risky than outright, because they are definitely not and I really hope IB does not PM these.

Also, without access to the 24/7 I would not even think about touching the CME stuff if you use any meaningful leverage


Take it easy cowboy...otherwise your 500k are gone in an instant.

 

[GRULSTMRNN]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate what you said, though re margins set by exchanges it definitely incorporates primarily the financial risk and volatility of the underlying when you look at the methodology of how exchanges calculate margin.

200k here seems completely arbitrarily set by IB to discourage anyone from trading this product (at least on the short side)

Risk managers would go by the exchange margins most of the time. However, a specific customer could have a large concentration of contracts and that in that case some risk managers may approach him/her and ask for additional cushion. In the case of naked options, BTC or other situations that are not regular they may apply some discretion which is above and beyond the exchange requirements. Margins BTW were never an indication of the risk that the underlying asset has. To me, every exchange is a sales organization that pushes a product, and margins are set to attract speculators to trade that product.

 

[Overnight]

...

200k here seems completely arbitrarily set by IB to discourage anyone from trading this product (at least on the short side)

Of course it is arbitrary. IB charges above-exchange minimums on most things they allow you to trade. How do they come to that amount? Ask Petterfy, or whatever his name is.

 

[GRULSTMRNN]

There is a difference between being overly conservative and essentially outlawing participation. It appears to be the only reason they even added this contract is to not fall behind in the marketing machine. Apparently they have zero interest in clients trading it.

Of course it is arbitrary. IB charges above-exchange minimums on most things they allow you to trade. How do they come to that amount? Ask Petterfy, or whatever his name is.

 

[MattZ]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate what you said, though re margins set by exchanges it definitely incorporates primarily the financial risk and volatility of the underlying when you look at the methodology of how exchanges calculate margin.

200k here seems completely arbitrarily set by IB to discourage anyone from trading this product (at least on the short side)

You are very welcome. When high limits set for a specific product which is above and beyond a reasonable amount, it's their way of saying that they do not want this product and could care less whether you trade it or not.
Before Optimus Futures, I worked in just about every capacity such as risk manager, branch manager, Introducing Broker Liaison, and Broker. Each FCM has a particular policy when it comes to risk, and because I know how they think it is easy for me to find a match one's trading. You can PM me if you ever wish to schedule a call and discuss accommodating your business.