Birth of a trader

NoDoji · Mar 2, 2011

Quote from frank8800:

CL Trade #1
Nice pullback entry off the 1 min chart, but got shaken out. +1 tick.

I went long @ 100.93, 1-min chart pullback entry as well, so I'm curious how you only got a tick out of that trade. The initial target zone on this trade was the previous high (101.30). I moved my stop to b/e after 20 ticks, but had no intention of getting out for less than the previous high, unless stopped out b/e (it did come very close).

My long entry was just a few seconds before at 05:41 your time.

BCE · Mar 2, 2011

Quote from NoDoji:

I went long @ 100.93, 1-min chart pullback entry as well, so I'm curious how you only got a tick out of that trade. The initial target zone on this trade was the previous high (101.30). I moved my stop to b/e after 20 ticks, but had no intention of getting out for less than the previous high, unless stopped out b/e (it did come very close).

My long entry was just a few seconds before at 05:41 your time.

Sorry to interrupt your thread, frank8800. Off topic here, but I was just looking at your own "birth of a trader" thread NoDoji, (NoDoji's Day Trading Log - which is no longer open). It's highly recommended to those learning how to trade. I was just asked in a PM by one of the CL Redux posters what threads I thought were good and this was one of the ones I mentioned.

To those who may have missed it and are wanting to learn more about trading it's here http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=132626.

frank8800 · Mar 2, 2011

Quote from NoDoji:

I went long @ 100.93, 1-min chart pullback entry as well, so I'm curious how you only got a tick out of that trade. The initial target zone on this trade was the previous high (101.30). I moved my stop to b/e after 20 ticks, but had no intention of getting out for less than the previous high, unless stopped out b/e (it did come very close).

My long entry was just a few seconds before at 05:41 your time.

Because I moved my stop too soon. My trade management needs more work, to say the least. At least I got the entry right.

frank8800 · Mar 2, 2011

Quote from BCE:

Sorry to interrupt your thread, frank8800. Off topic here, but I was just looking at your own "birth of a trader" thread NoDoji, (NoDoji's Day Trading Log - which is no longer open). It's highly recommended to those learning how to trade. I was just asked in a PM by one of the CL Redux posters what threads I thought were good and this was one of the ones I mentioned. To those who may have missed it and are wanting to learn more about trading it's here http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=132626.

No apologies necessary BCE. I enjoy your posting on the CL thread. You're more than welcome to post anything you want here.

I've read NoDoji's journal twice, downloaded and studied many of the trades, and made a little book out of the wisdom from Bighog and others. NoDoji made extensive use of the stochastics, and I've chosen to not use indicators. Her hit-and-run style was apparent from day one, as was her natural ability as a trader. Her journal ends right about when she started with futures.

Perhaps I've been overly influenced by her ability to avoid losing trades and it's one of the reasons I move my stops quickly (not blaming her mind you - this is purely my problem).

I do very well trading in sim and replay. I know the setups I want to take, and have been making pretty good progress with avoiding counter-trend trades. I think the problem is in my head. Not sure how to purge the demons other than continuing to practice.

NoDoji · Mar 2, 2011

Quote from frank8800:

Because I moved my stop too soon. My trade management needs more work, to say the least. At least I got the entry right.

I see. What's helpful is to define rules for moving stops. As you know CL's volatility took a leap recently because of all these over-caffeinated oil traders, so I personally changed my with-trend management to not move the stop until after 20 ticks in my favor (sometimes even that's too soon). Many traders just leave initial stops until price is only a few ticks from target.

Counter-trend, I'm still pretty conservative and sometimes move my stop after only a few ticks, if I'm expecting follow through to a nearby level and don't get it. Also, on breakouts I'll move my stop pretty quickly if the breakout is weak.

I think you'll find it beneficial to shift your focus: Before you're even in the trade, have an initial target in mind, then manage the trade with expectation of profit, not the fear of loss. The protective stop you place is your cost of admission to the trade. If you don't want to pay admission to your own trades, then you have to give your money to a mutual fund or something and let strangers trade for you

jas_in_hbca · Mar 2, 2011

Quote from frank8800:

Because I moved my stop too soon. My trade management needs more work, to say the least. At least I got the entry right.

does this happen often ? Are you afraid to take losses ?

frank8800 · Mar 2, 2011

Quote from NoDoji:

I think you'll find it beneficial to shift your focus: Before you're even in the trade, have an initial target in mind, then manage the trade with expectation of profit, not the fear of loss. The protective stop you place is your cost of admission to the trade. If you don't want to pay admission to your own trades, then you have to give your money to a mutual fund or something and let strangers trade for you

Roger - will give that a go. Thanks.

NoDoji · Mar 2, 2011

Quote from frank8800:

Perhaps I've been overly influenced by her ability to avoid losing trades and it's one of the reasons I move my stops quickly (not blaming her mind you - this is purely my problem).

That was one of my biggest mistakes. I went from periods of no rick management to disaster-based risk management to tight risk management, to trying to avoid all losses risk management. The more I shifted away from that, the more money I ended up making, because I started trading every valid setup, taking more losses, but many more profits, because I was placing probability in my favor. You just have to start trusting it and then doing it and then experiencing the positive result. You'll be hooked.

frank8800 · Mar 2, 2011

Quote from jas_in_hbca:

does this happen often ? Are you afraid to take losses ?

You know ... I'm really not sure. Maybe. Maybe I'm afraid to lose. Or afraid to be wrong. I've lost a couple of thousand over the past several months, and I'm not really bothered by it.

I've been moving my stop to BE+1 after 8 ticks. What I'm looking for is the trade to move in my favor quickly. Obviously, this isn't working very well.

jas_in_hbca · Mar 2, 2011

Quote from frank8800:

You know ... I'm really not sure. Maybe. Maybe I'm afraid to lose. Or afraid to be wrong. I've lost a couple of thousand over the past several months, and I'm not really bothered by it.

I've been moving my stop to BE+1 after 8 ticks. What I'm looking for is the trade to move in my favor quickly. Obviously, this isn't working very well.

i trade NQ so i don't know if 8 ticks is enough breathing room for CL. I don't move my stop up unless i've got a decent profit or price action indicates the trade isn't working.

Anyway i'll go back to lurking here as you've got better traders than I to help you.