Biden's Six Pillars - Addressing Covid in the U.S.

UsualName said:
Large employers are regulated differently under the law than small employers. It usually comes down to resources and ability to implement a regulation. I think the federal standard is 50 but the onus on this mandate with cost of testing and personnel to process might create an undue burden argument and that may be why they chose 100 as the standard.
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Federal government said they would not pay for tests so each person will have to pay for their own tests. If I have a company and this is put out by Biden, I am not paying for hundreds of tests every week....companies will not be paying for testing if someone chooses not to get vaxxed.
 
El OchoCinco said:
We will see but OSHA are government and industry wide safety regulations that are applied through OSHA's authorized rule making authority. They also come from industry wide standarized safety measures that were actually put out to the public for comment and expert input before coming to final agreement on generally accepted safety standards. ALSO... they are applied equally to all businesses.

You keep using OSHA as your example and the 30,000 foot level comment that the government can regulate safety measures. But you keep ignoring what I am literally saying to you when you come down from the cloud level analysis.

OSHA puts forth health and safety measures through thoroughly vetted rule making procedures afforded due process under staturoty authorizations. The DoL putting out an emergency order requiring private employers to mandate vaccines for all employees or weekly testing is NOT the same thing.

Here are the main points to challenge this action

- the vaccine is not required by law so the DoL EA is putting an excessive burden on employers in who they can or cannot hire or maintain on their payroll based on their health decision made outside the office. As an employer I cannot go make you see your doctor but I can require safety measures due to covid. Private employers can make this choice themselves IF THEY WANT but government is crossing the line by mandating in such an arbitrary way.

- the EA arbitrarily uses 100 employees as a cut off which serves no meaningful purpose for the reduction of COVID cases. COVID can spread in businesses of 4 employees the same as it can in 4000 employees so larger companies are being discriminated against while smaller business are free to choose how they manage their employees. This further proves that the vaccine cannot be mandated by federal law to private citizens because it is not being applied equally to all businesses.

- the fines impose a penalty without due process not to mention a company of 101 employees can be fined considerabley while a company of 99 employees with no mandates can be free from any restrictions.

- If you are not vaccinated it is recommended you socially distance, mask up and if at risk stay away from crowds. If the CDC has recommended unvaxxed wear masks and social distance then there are options for those that are unvaxxed. the federl government now wants to say that despite the CDC we now will prohibit you from working or going in public.
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Well the company can ensure your physical fitness to perform your duties. Some jobs do have routine physical exams.

I was personally legally advised that we can send employees home who are displaying symptoms associated with Covid and their return would be a time thing or a negative Covid test. So disease policy is already in the workplace. I believe that was under ADA emergency guidance- it’s been a while since this started.

After this rule, testing for Covid or proof of vaccination will be required in many workplaces. Like I said I difference between a rule or law in a court.

I’m not sure we will ever actually see a fine but yes, there is always appeals to fines and sanctions from the government so I would expect no difference.

Well Delta or United one of them just recently announced all unvaccinated employees will be put on unpaid leave next month - and those are persons with bona fide exemptions. So as far as who can and cannot work that’s much more strict than a testing alternative.

So, again you state the vaccine cannot be mandated by the government and I contend, the legal argument is it’s not. Vaccination is an alternative to a testing mandate - which is certainly allowed.

I can see the argument that the rule is impossible to implement or too costly, etc. There in my opinion is where the weakness is and where I think you have a point about subverting the rule making process.

Hey, I can go with this stuff all day but I know you as a being thoughtful. Let’s just disagree on this.
 
This Biden directive is tantamount to a dictatorship. He does not have the authority that he claims he has, but we may let him get away with it, just as he has slithered through on a host of other orders, just as Barack Hussein did before him. America is falling apart and these Democrats need to be removed electorally in 2022 and 2024.
 
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He talks down to Americans. He is one of the most anti-American individuals in history and now solidifies his position as the absolute worst president in the country's history.
 
UsualName said:
Well the company can ensure your physical fitness to perform your duties. Some jobs do have routine physical exams.

I was personally legally advised that we can send employees home who are displaying symptoms associated with Covid and their return would be a time thing or a negative Covid test. So disease policy is already in the workplace. I believe that was under ADA emergency guidance- it’s been a while since this started.

After this rule, testing for Covid or proof of vaccination will be required in many workplaces. Like I said I difference between a rule or law in a court.

I’m not sure we will ever actually see a fine but yes, there is always appeals to fines and sanctions from the government so I would expect no difference.

Well Delta or United one of them just recently announced all unvaccinated employees will be put on unpaid leave next month - and those are persons with bona fide exemptions. So as far as who can and cannot work that’s much more strict than a testing alternative.

So, again you state the vaccine cannot be mandated by the government and I contend, the legal argument is it’s not. Vaccination is an alternative to a testing mandate - which is certainly allowed.

I can see the argument that the rule is impossible to implement or too costly, etc. There in my opinion is where the weakness is and where I think you have a point about subverting the rule making process.

Hey, I can go with this stuff all day but I know you as a being thoughtful. Let’s just disagree on this.
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Well I am enjoying the rational intelligent discussion so I dont care if we go all day :).

A testing mandate is not what this is being pushed as....a vaccine madate or test weekly at your own cost.

But again Walmart or UNited making the decision is within their power. The federal government is asking them to do something they never agreed to do. Walmart for example does not require 100% employees get vaccinated and neither does CVS. They may punt and say big brother said so... sorry.

if Walmart was fine with 15% of their employees not getting vaccinated and they put in rules in place for all employees they may suddenly be quite upset that now they are being fined millions of dollars on something they had already taken care of themselves. So the lawsuits might be from large companies because THEY are having to pay the fines. If Walmart, United, Google and Apple join together.... this Emergency Order will have to be changed, improved or scrapped.
 
Overnight said:
Wonder how Sweden is doing through all of this. They were the country du jour to quote.

EVERY SINGLE DAY WE HEARD ABOUT HOW SWEDEN WAS A COUNTRY APART FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD.

What have they been doing lately?
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Dead average vs rest of Europe.
 
gwb-trading said:
Coming out in his speech at 5pm EDT. As a preview...

All large employers with 100 or more employees in the U.S. will be required to have their employees vaccinated.

Biden to announce new vaccine mandates for federal workers and large employers
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politics/joe-biden-covid-speech/index.html
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Biden sounded exactly like Hitler during that speech.

iu
 
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