Biden's Six Pillars - Addressing Covid in the U.S.

[Buy1Sell2]

So Biden is saying that the vaccines don't work.

He's a very very stupid man.

 

[Mercor]

I just read this awful story about a grandmother and daughter who didn’t get vaccinated because of all of the misinformation and disinformation about healthy people not needing vaccines but the poor lady’s granddaughter had a breathing issue and the daughter caught Covid and gave it to the granddaughter and it did not end well. Now this poor lady and daughter are beside themselves with grief and regret.

You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading this misinformation. Not everybody can see through it. Some people are just waitresses and cashiers who don’t know the difference between the bullshit people like you post and actual real medical information.

You all need to stop. The misinformation you’re spreading is getting people killed and destroying people’s lives.

Its unlikely this Grandmother would read that healthy people don't need to get the vaccine from this website
Most likely the information is told by CNN and their lot. They spend hours per day repeating what they think the un-vaccinated are thinking. ...and they think all un-vaccinated are anti-vaxxers.....when most people are indifferent about their health and haven't seen a doctor in years for any reason

 

[userque]

It's time for the federal government to firmly take control of our response across the nation

The CDC needs to be given greater mandate authority.

It is silly to leave individual states to decide what to do about any virus that can spread across the whole country with deadly effects.

Viruses don't stay within state boundaries. Duh. It's a federal matter...or it should be.

 

[UsualName]

Federal rule making 101:

I expect the rule will look similar to this:

https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.134

 

[UsualName]

Its unlikely this Grandmother would read that healthy people don't need to get the vaccine from this website
Most likely the information is told by CNN and their lot. They spend hours per day repeating what they think the un-vaccinated are thinking. ...and they think all un-vaccinated are anti-vaxxers.....when most people are indifferent about their health and haven't seen a doctor in years for any reason

I’m not trying to get into this just some people should be ashamed of the misinformation they are spreading. That’s it. I’ve said my piece.

 

[El OchoCinco]

Actually he is stating vaccines are very effective -- and the only end game here is to get everyone vaccinated. Just like we do for other diseases.

Vaccines are only effective when companies have 100 or more employees...that is how random the logic is...

 

[gwb-trading]

Vaccines are only effective when companies have 100 or more employees...that is how random the logic is...

These companies account for over 2/3 of the workforce. A good place to start. Get this in place now then expand it to all employers after any court challenges are knocked away.

There is also the reality that larger employers are much more likely to follow OSHA regulations than smaller ones.

 

[El OchoCinco]

Who knows, maybe the Biden administration will have a different argument in court but I know legally the government can use existing powers to coerce outcomes. For example a tax as a “mandate” or highway funds tied to seatbelt laws. It’s a core principle of our governments legal powers.

So the difference I see between DeSantis forbidding vaccination requirements and OSHA effectively mandating vaccination requirements is a matter of public health, or in this case occupation health and safety. The government certainly can act in the interest of health and safety in the workplace but can a state use its powers as a deterrent of good health practices, I doubt it. This seems pretty easy for me to determine as an inherent power to protect workers.

As to customers and requirements for vaccines from a private business standpoint that’s easy too, of course they can. It’s their property. Now from the government standpoint, I honestly don’t know how to do that without a law. I’m not sure of any laws on the books or regulating powers that exist that can be used. But I was surprised with the route the Biden administration took with this OSHA stuff so I could be further surprised. I think it was Shakespeare who wrote we must never be beyond surprise.

But like I said, my opinion is this is going to clear the courts in a few ways and I have no doubt there will be hiccups because there’s always exceptions to the rule and law suits are targeted toward sympathetic judge. It’s just a matter of time before we will all find out.

We will see but OSHA are government and industry wide safety regulations that are applied through OSHA's authorized rule making authority. They also come from industry wide standarized safety measures that were actually put out to the public for comment and expert input before coming to final agreement on generally accepted safety standards. ALSO... they are applied equally to all businesses.

You keep using OSHA as your example and the 30,000 foot level comment that the government can regulate safety measures. But you keep ignoring what I am literally saying to you when you come down from the cloud level analysis.

OSHA puts forth health and safety measures through thoroughly vetted rule making procedures afforded due process under staturoty authorizations. The DoL putting out an emergency order requiring private employers to mandate vaccines for all employees or weekly testing is NOT the same thing.

Here are the main points to challenge this action

- the vaccine is not required by law so the DoL EA is putting an excessive burden on employers in who they can or cannot hire or maintain on their payroll based on their health decision made outside the office. As an employer I cannot go make you see your doctor but I can require safety measures due to covid. Private employers can make this choice themselves IF THEY WANT but government is crossing the line by mandating in such an arbitrary way.

- the EA arbitrarily uses 100 employees as a cut off which serves no meaningful purpose for the reduction of COVID cases. COVID can spread in businesses of 4 employees the same as it can in 4000 employees so larger companies are being discriminated against while smaller business are free to choose how they manage their employees. This further proves that the vaccine cannot be mandated by federal law to private citizens because it is not being applied equally to all businesses.

- the fines impose a penalty without due process not to mention a company of 101 employees can be fined considerabley while a company of 99 employees with no mandates can be free from any restrictions.

- If you are not vaccinated it is recommended you socially distance, mask up and if at risk stay away from crowds. If the CDC has recommended unvaxxed wear masks and social distance then there are options for those that are unvaxxed. the federl government now wants to say that despite the CDC we now will prohibit you from working or going in public.

 

[UsualName]

These companies account for over 2/3 of the workforce. A good place to start. Get this in place now then expand it to all employers after any court challenges are knocked away.

There is also the reality that larger employers are much more likely to follow OSHA regulations than smaller ones.

Large employers are regulated differently under the law than small employers. It usually comes down to resources and ability to implement a regulation. I think the federal standard is 50 but the onus on this mandate with cost of testing and personnel to process might create an undue burden argument and that may be why they chose 100 as the standard.

 

[El OchoCinco]

These companies account for over 2/3 of the workforce. A good place to start. Get this in place now then expand it to all employers after any court challenges are knocked away.

There is also the reality that larger employers are much more likely to follow OSHA regulations than smaller ones.

I am not sure this is an OSHA regulation, it is being couched as an emergency order. WHy? Because EO's bypass rulemaking procedures for immediate effect.

Also the order says mandate vaccines or weekly testing..... not sure what good weekly testing will do if you offer that as an alternative to being vaxxed.... What happens on the weekly test when 25 people in a company of 300 test positive? Since when did they have covid before testing positive and how much contact did they have with people.

I think the federal government mandating that all private employers force vaccinations or face significant fines means the private employers will have to fire people. When the people who are fired sue the company, the company will point their fingers at the federal government. the federal government is indirectly taking liberty/property without due process and those cases rarely hold up to constitutional scrutiny.

This is not the same as OSHA regulations passed through APA processes or mandating polio/MMR vaccines for school children...