Biden's MU Variant

Mercor said:
TRUMP: Covid deaths 352,000 WITH NO VACCINE until end
BIDEN: Covid deaths 258,000 WITH VACCINE
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Haha, Biden will beat Trump easy then.

Actually not, Trump actually killed nearly a million domestically and his incompetence allowing monitoring of the Chinese CDC to lapse started the pandemic so its all his score really... Poor Biden (it's mostly Trumpsters dying, you know that, 258k+ fewer Con voters).
 
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Bugenhagen said:
Haha, Biden will beat Trump easy then.

Actually not, Trump actually killed nearly a million domestically and his incompetence allowing monitoring of the Chinese CDC to lapse started the pandemic so its all his score really... Poor Biden (it's mostly Trumpsters dying, you know that, 258k+ fewer Con voters).
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Hate over facts...They call that CHAT RAGE
 
jem said:
No... it is complex. Plus our PCR tests are not able to tell us who is infectious.

Scientists have had a trouble identifying when people are infectious.

So... perhaps delta is different... from the first two waves and they can identify infrequent asymptomatic spread... but... I don't think they can be that precise.
Asymptomatic vs pre symptomatic is probably an imprecise threshold.

2. But... this is not a challenge... I wish to know...


Why are you saying that vaccinated vs unvaxxed have different mechanisms.
From very early on... science has said that in vitro some people's immune systems destroy the virus on contact in vitro... and that the less symptomatic you are the less you rely on antibodies...

so its very possible to have the remnants of virus in your nose...

but your immune system wiped it out so fast... that the difference between infected and non infected is only by definition...
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The vaccinated have defense mechanisms whereas most unvaccinated do not. Vaccinated have Antibodies and more than likely t and B cell defenses. Unvaccinated will have to produce a defense from scratch.

Your last point is a good point. That some positive tests aren’t actually positive in the sense they are causing bodily infection. However, some positives are true positive even if the immune response is “efficient.” People can have huge viral loads and mild symptoms because their immune system is able to regulate response well. Other can have incredible symptoms due to an overreaction of the immune system - this happens to younger people more often than older people.

There is a lot that is still unknown about Covid, Covid vaccines, spread, etc.
 
I appreciate the discussion...




a. Based on this this study you can see some people never need to develop detectable antibodies to the beat the virus naturally. Scientists have not ruled out cross reactivity or other mechanisms of natural immunity.



b. You really do not want to have detectable antibodies. Particularly Persisent antibodies as they correlate with comorbidities and severity of disease.

the more persistent antibodies have a correlation with severity of symptoms and co morbidities....

The less severe the symptoms... the more likely you did not even have detectable antibodies.



https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00025-2/fulltext

" We observed a distinct stepwise progression from the negative group to the persistent group, whereby patients with persistent antibodies were older and had more comorbidities, including hypertension and diabetes mellitus."


The demographic differences we observed were probably related to increased disease severity, as patients in the persistent group had poorer clinical outcomes, including pneumonia, supplemental oxygen requirement, intensive care unit admission, and mechanical ventilation. Baseline symptoms and investigations reflected this increased disease severity, with a greater proportion of patients with fever, cough, dyspnoea, reduced lymphocyte count, increased C-reactive protein, and increased lactate dehydrogenase in the persistent group. We observed a greater proportion of asymptomatic individuals in the negative group (11 [58%] of 19 patients) compared with the persistent group (three [6%] of 52 patients).







UsualName said:
The vaccinated have defense mechanisms whereas most unvaccinated do not. Vaccinated have Antibodies and more than likely t and B cell defenses. Unvaccinated will have to produce a defense from scratch.

Your last point is a good point. That some positive tests aren’t actually positive in the sense they are causing bodily infection. However, some positives are true positive even if the immune response is “efficient.” People can have huge viral loads and mild symptoms because their immune system is able to regulate response well. Other can have incredible symptoms due to an overreaction of the immune system - this happens to younger people more often than older people.

There is a lot that is still unknown about Covid, Covid vaccines, spread, etc.
More...
 
jem said:
I appreciate the discussion...




a. Based on this this study you can see some people never need to develop detectable antibodies to the beat the virus naturally. Scientists have not ruled out cross reactivity or other mechanisms of natural immunity.



b. You really do not want to have detectable antibodies. Particularly Persisent antibodies as they correlate with comorbidities and severity of disease.

the more persistent antibodies have a correlation with severity of symptoms and co morbidities....

The less severe the symptoms... the more likely you did not even have detectable antibodies.



https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00025-2/fulltext

" We observed a distinct stepwise progression from the negative group to the persistent group, whereby patients with persistent antibodies were older and had more comorbidities, including hypertension and diabetes mellitus."


The demographic differences we observed were probably related to increased disease severity, as patients in the persistent group had poorer clinical outcomes, including pneumonia, supplemental oxygen requirement, intensive care unit admission, and mechanical ventilation. Baseline symptoms and investigations reflected this increased disease severity, with a greater proportion of patients with fever, cough, dyspnoea, reduced lymphocyte count, increased C-reactive protein, and increased lactate dehydrogenase in the persistent group. We observed a greater proportion of asymptomatic individuals in the negative group (11 [58%] of 19 patients) compared with the persistent group (three [6%] of 52 patients).
More...

I think what is important here is that they found a T cell response- which is great.

So antibodies don’t stay with a person for life usually. Think about if your body continuously produced antibodies from every virus you ever encountered. Your neck would be a constant sore and your lymph nodes would be the size of footballs. So antibodies are going to wane BUT T cell and memory B cell are forever. This is protection that comes from your bone marrow among a few other places. It is great that T cell response was found and was uniformly distributed among all age and wellness groups.

Id expect antibodies to wane no matter what. And this is the current discussion over boosters. Because if vaccines develop a t or B cell response, yes, you will likely get mild illness while your body takes the time to marshal the response but it’ll most likely give you protection from severe disease. Now obviously this is not going to be 100%, nothing is.
 
absolute horseshit......

I have been in a car with covid for hours and I have had dinner next to covid.... and I pretty sure I have been on a plane surrounded by covid. And although there was no tests at the time I am pretty sure I slept next to covid for a few days.

I have never been symptomatic... so per the data we have regarding covid... there virtually zero chance I spread covid.

Why... because I get a ton of vitamin D. Per your reminder I started taking C again. I exercise everyday at least once...

The only slight risk factor I have at the moment is that during the week I probably do not get enough sleep because I wake up at 5 to 5:30. I am working on going to sleep earlier.


piezoe said:
Least of all those like yourself, who helped increase the number of potential hosts and transmission probability by putting off vaccination.
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jem said:
absolute horseshit......

I have been in a car with covid for hours and I have had dinner next to covid.... and I pretty sure I have been on a plane surrounded by covid. And although there was no tests at the time I am pretty sure I slept next to covid for a few days.

I have never been symptomatic... so per the data we have regarding covid... there virtually zero chance I spread covid.

Why... because I get a ton of vitamin D. Per your reminder I started taking C again. I exercise everyday at least once...

The only slight risk factor I have at the moment is that during the week I probably do not get enough sleep because I wake up at 5 to 5:30. I am working on going to sleep earlier.
More...
Shall we save this as another of our favorite jem quotes and engrave it on your tombstone?
 
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