Bid volume Ask volume ratio
- Thread starter Mononoke
- Start date
I did a lot of experimentation with volume ratios, book ratios, delta etc. etc. back in the day, and never found anything of value. Perhaps there's something there, but you definitely won't see it without tons of screentime with the indicator, and it's certainly not a holy grail-type mechanical signal.
lol....
You are right on. My error.
Thanks for helping out by correcting my careless error.
Regards,
Jack.
My orientation to trading is to take the offer.
As yet, there hasn't been a description here of how the market turns. Pragmatically, most people observe the net reselt of trading.
For me it is a better thing to observe what is coming up next; that is, to pay attention as the how the future is moving into the present.
This is like the contrast of researchers using chest bands to measure breathing and current meters to measure galvanic effect of big money traders as compared to using a Fourier analysis to measure coherence through the waveform of the heart function.
Big D describes what he thinks is the continuity of what he feels is two sides of liquidity (and apparently, in terms of people doing things).
I am right angles and dealing with the market's offer instead.
In engineering terms it is like electric field theory where two fields are involved but each is very different in nature. elrctric and magnetic fields are usually examined as orthogonal fields and the instruments to examine one are not used to examine the other since different principles are involved.
Big D probably does not deal with extracting the market's offer; but instead follows the conventiions of the financial industry which itself does not extract the offer either.
I do extract the offer and it is easily seen, historically, by lookiung at charts. By looking at the offer as it is created in the future and the future moves into the Present, a trader has a whole different perspective.
I examine whether either of two mutually exclusive things is going on. What is nice about this (convenient so to speak) is that if you don't have one, you have the other. Trading is done during the window between profit segments happening.
Often it takes a thinking person a while to sumise that if a segment is hapening, then is not the time to be locking in the accumulating profit. Once this is available, mentally, then the person moves to considering how to maintain the process of extraction segment by segment. This reanges from 3 to 6 times the daily range if done with an earnest effort.
Look at HFT as an eample of not persuing taking the series of profit sgments by just dallying around with market technology current inadequacies. Look at MM's as people who may behave, in pat, as described here (the description defies the cyclic nature of market operations as we all read).
The period between segments is where the trader acts to stay on the correct side of the market as his goal. sometimes the markt is flat for long periods and then rapidly taken on a new level. Other times the market moves at a constant velocity and then , in a brief moment hcanges direction. the reveals to traders that "one size doe not fit all". There are many many measures of the "one size fits all" orientation to markets (see Traderzone's lament).
During the even harmonic market activity, there is a lot of time to go from one side of the market to the other. Odd harmonic activity demands that the Turn be traded throughout theturn meaning before during and after the actual extreme.
bt considering the relationship of the daily effeciency being between 3 and 6 times the range, it is possible to focus on how this is optimized rather than the mere consideration of its possibility. A crayola establishes the possibility. Now we can turn to the lifting of the crayola and then placing it back on the chart.
Take the even harmonic. This is a channel running into an R or S. You time the reversal partials according to the "tests" @ a given R or S. Price walks out of the channel laterally and the tests are on dominant volume where the DOM wall (put there by limit orders that cannot be exhausted as seen by volume time rate of change). The people who put them there "show". The "unseen" trader is us8ing "market" orders which show on the T & S OTR and cash to premium comparison (S/S).
The T&S shows the market's capacity. It appears on the V of the OTR and the magnitude of the distortion of the premium either long or short.
By comparing the magnitude of the WALL on the DOM (this is a net value that shows the Adds and the pulls) with the rate of fills on the three above mentioned and considering the "pulsing" (this is the harmonic flavor) of this rate of fills, you set the value of positions as a multiple of capacity and use the time span of the "testing" as shown on the premium distortion periodicity.
A nominal trading level these days for optimum extraction is a multiple of five of capacity. No one would want to operate with blocks 2 capacity, though since this introduces lag and inefficiencies. you operate under the radar by the neatness of partial fills by beeding out the duration available.
because the contrast between "needs' and market size is so stark, earnestness seems to focus on coherence primarily. coherence is achieved by routine where the meditative aspect is knowing that you know. The finality of it is the pas of the human mind are easily faster than the two pair aspects of the OTR. you can literally go through circling and ID'ing prints and OTR chart prints to see the correspondence. This is kind of an advanced type of personal drill. (I do it more on broker reports provided on demand for position trading equitieson a much slower fractal). This is a discussion of futures trading where 20 to 40 turns a day are involved.
For odd harmonics, you have a channel runing into a new channel. Channel is just a description of a parallelogram on a fairly fast fractal. The market dictates these formations which I call patterns. Here, trading occurs within a bar on the fractal. the easiest term for the bar is a spike and often, because voume leads price, I refer to it as an IBGS.
The extreme end of the bar is given to you in advance on the DOM. the excess and inexaustable magnitude of this WALL is apparently unseen by the financial industy's participants. Obviously, the lack of a wall is even more fun and often results in phone calls and humor aboutits absence, bief appearance and the subsequent turn.
Long ago and before emini's when phones were used, a really significant camraderie developed among those who traded and their opposites who did the C and R's. After hours or during the "even harmonic" periods, there was time to "share" or "exchange" on the "mood" or modes of action. All during that time the "floor sounds" were kind of signals. It was called "noise" and was the opposite of what is called noise today. Then, what now "seen" as described above, was the floor noise'. Today electronincs replace the former human sound interaction and observation vocally.
As a spike is going to extreme, you "see" appraocahing, happening and ending with the new trend "continuing". I hve seven zones of two screens I sequence through as I do laps on MADA. After an M, I do not use screens to do ADA; that is paper work by recording from center to left to right. I know DA before I start paper. As I shifted from M to paper I did A
Since I have just had my lens replaced and my coneas removed and regrown, my mind has has to reprocess all the steps of sensing which is a bilateral process. This really increases the M part and it lends coherence to the matter. A spike is part of a bar and a bar is 300 seconds. On OTR's the screen pane moves with changes of pairs. Two OTR's provide a nice distortion of pane movement between the OTR's. It allows visual velocity and acceleration measures to be part of M. The same is true for the Premium pane. There, drift and deriavtives are very indepentently sensed.
all sensing becomes "perception" through the inference matching with the sensising. For me it is unconscious competence. Everything is "knowing that you know".
I know this post is skimpy compared with what is required, descriptively. The market narration moves at about four times the speed of speech. Dealing with harmonics is a few chapters under what is titled effectiveness and efficiency. I guess the first thing is to set up a display so the market can be seen. Platform providers usually don't have time to address platform issues since they are sales oriented.
Thanks for your question.
Oh, my! How I long for the good old days with their simplistic view of "up", "down", or "sideways!"
Thank you very much for giving me a detailed description of how you use market harmonic and partial fills with various fine tools to take market offers masterfully. It is surprisingly clear. I hope I can try it soon.
One question left. You mentioned about a channel running into S or R. Are S and R the RTL and LTL of next slower fractal or more slower ones? Thank you again.
They lag like crazy.. in the 90's I was suggesting to several of them that they could provide me with daily bars that updated in realtime and they could not understand why I would want that!! These are the good old days for sure!!
I've written my own from time to time, it's the only way to escape the overly static displays that we have. Some of the existing packages can be modified in that you can write an indicator that becomes your primary display and looks like whatever you want it to... you can build your own bars of data in cyberspace and display them however you want, I've done that off and on for years with several packages, it's a worthwhile pursuit for anybody that needs to escape the basic nature of charting as it exists...
Congrats on your eyes! My vision got so bad that I walked across the street and solidly hit my head on the don't walk signal, then I got lens replacements and I'm good to go for some more decades!!
Quote from SK0:
Thank you very much for giving me a detailed description of how you use market harmonic and partial fills with various fine tools to take market offers masterfully. It is surprisingly clear. I hope I can try it soon.
One question left. You mentioned about a channel running into S or R. Are S and R the RTL and LTL of next slower fractal or more slower ones? Thank you again.
there is a convention in the financial industry to refer to the vaulue (price upper or lower limit with Support and Resistance. they have many definitions usually related to the approach of the finanxial effort going on.
As you see these are vertical delineations and have an up/down focus.
In my shorthand, I presumed that R and S were most common abreviations for what is part of the common conversation of information providers.
Both R and S are commonly regarded as horizontal kinds of values and they are not thought of as interactive with price, until an vent occurs where usually just an historical statement is made about what happened and what the current speculative consensus is regarding the near term future.
Please reread my post a few time to take in its "context" which does relate closely to the market concensus as a way of acting as a parasite of the market Herd and its decision makers.
Traders who are not part of the herd and who are parasitic to it have untold advantages to make money. As Art says, oh for the good old days of this simplistic orientation of the financial industry. A trader just cannot be satisfied with residing their and dong the CW of the financial indutry.
I agree with you.
We have turned to supporting the library function of platform providers, if any.
It is very necessary to maintain a full time relationship with any providers that had the potential to be brought along with respect to trading approaches, techniques and strategies.
The is a chasm that has to be bridged between traders and provider programmers. Obviously the fast track is to simply program for them. results can be put in libraries and be the basis for their programmers just dropping what is provided into their offerings.
Often the platform providers off many levels of packages, I do not up grade to the upper levels until they have sone degree of functionality. Most upper level offering are just a greater array of throwing more mud at walls and seeing if clients like a particular mud distribution or selection of varieties.
Most packages bog down and slow down when their display panes are annotated. Getting any annotations to carry from pane to pane is usually not possible. Annotating capability is ,imited and slow at best.
When you try to combine functions (say offered or library situated you draw a blank). You still have to create on a single function level which is your contemporary example of requesting real time bars in the past.
One compromize is using an export function and working off platform and then using an import function; here, of course you encounter a problem when data modification occurs and the nonstatinarity issues of bandwidth enter the picture.
It has been so humorous over the past fifty years. the hilight of my existance was when the SEC came on board with computers for monitoring accounts. It was hilarious and ascares the shit of the major brokerage firms.
for some reason the SEC people thought they were intelligent and that led them to considering a adopting an attitude that they were correct about things.
It is a challenge for an amateur to prevail in such a situation. Looking back and remembering the lawyers involved as the liaison, it was more humorious than the OCD's here and almost as humorous as some of the bullshit E-mails I have recieived from some representatives of major financial corps.
A trader is obligated to straighten out the government agencies and it is becoming more clear that the same may have to be done with the financial corps.
Governmen designed and operated computers cannot be expected to be competent. Financial corporations screw up their minds with the distortions their motives create. Commercial platforms are sale organization oriented so they try the "make markets" for their potential clients.
The gaping void will always exist. filling it under the radar has always been the most exciting enterprise in the world.
This was a fun post, you probably can read my continuing frustrations between the limes. I could write abook on the government agencies asociated with making money. I am so glad the trate of change in sophisitcation of the global economy is finally excusing governments from being a part of keepint economics all streamlined and operative.
Taking money away from those who come up with anything that lacks integrity is what is going dow in this next decade. It will be a sort of free lance Jack Bauer using capital as the weapon of choice.
Computers finally got to logic as an alternative to stats and stats' "biggering" approach. I even see a new wave of journalists replacing the "Taleb's, etc.. (See Ian Bremmer)