Peil, bless your heart, you are so far off on your ideas regarding carbon-14 dating (and everything else for that matter) that it would be just hopeless to show you how to calculate the age of something based on the C-14 counts -- though GOD knows it's a fucking simple calculation. Give up now and stop this nonsense.
Bible cant be true because of million year old fossils/carbon dating...right?
- Thread starter peilthetraveler
- Start date
Peil, bless your heart, you are so far off on your ideas regarding carbon-14 dating (and everything else for that matter) that it would be just hopeless to show you how to calculate the age of something based on the C-14 counts -- though GOD knows it's a fucking simple calculation. Give up now and stop this nonsense.
Physics Shows That Six Day Creation is Possible
Written by: Bruce Malone
Exodus 20:11 makes one of the most unbelievable statements of the Bible: "In six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day." It is hard to imagine a clearer statement defining how long God took in creating the entire universe. However, this simple statement has presented a seemingly impossible dilemma for Christians. On one hand, modern cosmology teaches that the universe has taken billions of years to form. On the other hand, if this clear and straightforward statement of the Bible can not be trusted to mean what it says, how can we know that any statement of the Bible can be trusted to mean what it says?
This was the dilemma which Dr. Russell Humphreys (physicist at Sandia National Laboratory) set out to solve as he studied what the Bible had to say about the formation of our universe. Most people have been taught that the universe is the result of a gigantic explosion called the "Big Bang". During this explosive expansion, all the matter of the universe supposedly expanded outward from a tiny pinpoint. All modern cosmological models start with the assumption that the universe has neither a center nor an edge. When these assumptions are plugged into Einsteinâs general theory of relativity, the result is an expanding universe which is billions of years old at every location.
Rather than start with these arbitrary assumptions (a universe having no center and no edge), Dr. Humphreys decided to take the most apparent meaning of the Biblical text and see what model of the universe developed. He reasoned that if the Bible was inspired by God, as it claims to be, it should not have to be twisted to be understood. It should have the same straight forward meaning for a "man on the street", a brilliant physicist, or a theologian.
The Bible clearly indicates three things about God's formation of the universe. First, the earth is the center of God's attention in the universe. By implication, the earth may also be located near the center-perhaps so man can see the glory of God's creation in every direction. Second, the universe (both matter and space itself) has been "stretched out". Third, the universe has a boundary, and therefore it must have a center. If these three assumptions are plugged into the currently accepted formulas of physics, and the mathematical crank is turned, we live in a universe in which clocks tick at different rates depending on your location.
Furthermore, the time dilation effect would be magnified tremendously as the universe was originally expanding. As the universe expanded, there was a point at which time was moving very rapidly at the outer edge and essentially stopped near the center. At this point in the expansion of the universe, only days were passing near the center, while billions of years were passing in the heavens. This is the inevitable conclusion based on our current knowledge of physics and starting with Biblical assumptions instead of arbitrary ones. Albert Einstein rejected the idea that the Bible could be literally true. He wrote that, "Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the convictions that many of the stories in the Bible could not be true." How ironic that the most ridiculed Biblical story (about a recent, literal, six day creation of the universe) is exactly the story which Albert Einsteinâs work has shown to be entirely possible. A comprehensive explanation of Dr. Humphreys work, can be found in his book.
Written by: Bruce Malone
Exodus 20:11 makes one of the most unbelievable statements of the Bible: "In six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day." It is hard to imagine a clearer statement defining how long God took in creating the entire universe. However, this simple statement has presented a seemingly impossible dilemma for Christians. On one hand, modern cosmology teaches that the universe has taken billions of years to form. On the other hand, if this clear and straightforward statement of the Bible can not be trusted to mean what it says, how can we know that any statement of the Bible can be trusted to mean what it says?
This was the dilemma which Dr. Russell Humphreys (physicist at Sandia National Laboratory) set out to solve as he studied what the Bible had to say about the formation of our universe. Most people have been taught that the universe is the result of a gigantic explosion called the "Big Bang". During this explosive expansion, all the matter of the universe supposedly expanded outward from a tiny pinpoint. All modern cosmological models start with the assumption that the universe has neither a center nor an edge. When these assumptions are plugged into Einsteinâs general theory of relativity, the result is an expanding universe which is billions of years old at every location.
Rather than start with these arbitrary assumptions (a universe having no center and no edge), Dr. Humphreys decided to take the most apparent meaning of the Biblical text and see what model of the universe developed. He reasoned that if the Bible was inspired by God, as it claims to be, it should not have to be twisted to be understood. It should have the same straight forward meaning for a "man on the street", a brilliant physicist, or a theologian.
The Bible clearly indicates three things about God's formation of the universe. First, the earth is the center of God's attention in the universe. By implication, the earth may also be located near the center-perhaps so man can see the glory of God's creation in every direction. Second, the universe (both matter and space itself) has been "stretched out". Third, the universe has a boundary, and therefore it must have a center. If these three assumptions are plugged into the currently accepted formulas of physics, and the mathematical crank is turned, we live in a universe in which clocks tick at different rates depending on your location.
Furthermore, the time dilation effect would be magnified tremendously as the universe was originally expanding. As the universe expanded, there was a point at which time was moving very rapidly at the outer edge and essentially stopped near the center. At this point in the expansion of the universe, only days were passing near the center, while billions of years were passing in the heavens. This is the inevitable conclusion based on our current knowledge of physics and starting with Biblical assumptions instead of arbitrary ones. Albert Einstein rejected the idea that the Bible could be literally true. He wrote that, "Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the convictions that many of the stories in the Bible could not be true." How ironic that the most ridiculed Biblical story (about a recent, literal, six day creation of the universe) is exactly the story which Albert Einsteinâs work has shown to be entirely possible. A comprehensive explanation of Dr. Humphreys work, can be found in his book.
Excellent post! Too bad it will be totally ignored by vhehn and his ilk.
(Forehead slap.) What men do you know who have lived to 120?
I think you're more likely to have the opposite effect, that by proposing things that are just silly (men living to a thousand years, average men living to 120, the Earth being 6000 years old when it clearly isn't) that people are reacting against your beliefs and just classifying them as absurd.
Who gives a crap if you can't understand everything. Humans are idiots compared to the Almighty. With all of our science and supposed wisdom, we couldn't create a single cell new life form. Atheists are morons, and most religious pricks are really just lost judgemental assholes. Take the mighty spider..How could this amazing creature have the ability to shoot a string out of it's ass and then be able to form an intricate geometric web out of it. The answer: God made it that way, and then programmed it with it's inborn instinct. Same with a beaver, or a goose.
As for the dinosaurs, they coexisted with Man, it is all over the historical record. They were called Dragons back then. Is there Evolution? Hell yes, it is in God's design. Cro magnon man was likely a prototype. Who knows for sure. What is certain is that there is a superior being running the show, if you can't see that I feel sorry for you.
Rennick out
As for the dinosaurs, they coexisted with Man, it is all over the historical record. They were called Dragons back then. Is there Evolution? Hell yes, it is in God's design. Cro magnon man was likely a prototype. Who knows for sure. What is certain is that there is a superior being running the show, if you can't see that I feel sorry for you.
Rennick out
120 meaning the maximum age. If you cant understand some of the more simple things in the bible, I cant expect you to understand the more complex stuff. I swear...its like talking to a monkey. (get it?)
I rarely do post so I hope you guys will allow this to be long. If you will bear with me and read it from start to finish, no matter what you believe, it is still interesting.
I came across an article first published in the Wall Street Journal in 1997. It was called "Science Resurrects God." And this is what it said:
...quote...
"...in recent decades, physicists have noticed an astonishing thing about the fundamental laws of nature. The 20 or so parameters they contain, numbers governing the strength of gravity, the ratio of the proton's size to the neutron's, and so on, appear to have been fine-tuned so that, against astronomically unfavorable odds, conscious organisms could emerge. Make gravity the slightest bit weaker, and no galaxies suitable for life would have formed; make it the slightest bit stronger and the cosmos would have collapsed upon itself moments after the big bang."
"The universe," as cosmologist Fred Hoyle once remarked, "looks like a "put-up job." Who but a Divine Designer could have twiddled with these 20 different "control knobs" until they were pointing at precisely the right values for the full array of life ultimately to appear."...unquote...
In the light of mounting evidence, the goddess of reason has been forced to nod her head in the direction of the Creator. Cosmologists today are looking for what some call the "theory of everything," or the "God particle," a theory or formula that will explain the architecture of the universe, because more and more, the numbers are pointing to the existence of God. The universe, it turns out, is not just a big empty space that goes on forever. The numbers prove that it has deliberate design.
Now, you'll notice in the Bible that God uses the language of architecture when He describes how He created the universe. He speaks of "foundations", "lines", and "measures". Even though the language may be for our benefit, it does say something important. It tells us that God just didn't throw things together haphazardly.
Most Big Bangers/Evolutionists believe everything just haphazardly came to be out of randomness, coincidence, or chance but to me this is just not the case. It seems to me that everything points to a carefully thought out plan or "blueprint" shall we say... to keep using architectural language.
You guys are gonna ask, "What do these next couple of paragraphs have to do with the point he's trying to make?", but just bear with me.
At the beginning of the 13th century, a mathematician by the name of Leonardo Pisano studied a problem that had a revolutionary answer. The problem was given to him by a member of the royal family, and it went something like this: "A certain man put a pair of rabbits in a large pen. How many pairs of rabbits can be produced from that pair in a year if every month each pair produces a new pair, which from the second month on becomes productive?"
On paper, Leonardo listed the number of rabbits at the end of each month, and came up with the following numerical sequence: 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, and so on. And what is cool about those numbers is that every number in the sequence was the sum of the two that came before it. One plus one is two, one plus two is three, three plus two is five, and so on.
Right about now is where you're asking, "So what? What does that have to do with God?" Well, more than you might think. As it turns out, Leonardo stumbled across a very important mathematical principle, known as he Fibonacci sequence, or Fibonacci numbers. (Same numbers that are used in the trading world.) And even though it was first used to count rabbits, it just might part of the "blueprints" used to create the universe.
Students of this special sequence of numbers have noticed that each number bears a special relationship to the numbers surrounding it. The ratio of any Fibonacci number to the one before it is roughly 1.618034, and the ratio of any Fibonacci number to the one after it is roughly 0.618034. Again, so what? Well, as it turns out, that's a very special ratio.
It is so special, in fact, that it's called the "golden ratio," and the ancient Greeks based a lot of their art and architecture on it. The length of the Parthenon, for example, is 1.618034 times as long as the width, and the width is 0.618034 times as long as the length. And they designed a lot of their pottery with the same ratio. Now why did they do that?
They did it because they believed that this special ratio was much more pleasing to the human eye than any other ratio. And surprisingly, the very things we still find artistically pleasing today still exhibit that very same ratio.
The face of the Mona Lisa, for example, is built on the golden ratio. It is 1.618 times as long as it is wide. And it's been noticed by some students of music that the stuff we find really beautiful has the same golden ratio, where the first movement is 1.618 times as long as the second one, for example.
So why is it that we find that number so pleasing to the eye and to the ear? Could it be because that ratio most closely resembles the work of the Master Artist? Do we find it beautiful because it mimics creation?
Just consider how often the golden ratio shows up in nature, and I think you'll see what I mean. It turns out that your forearm is approximately 1.618 times as long as your hand.
And each segment in your finger is roughly 1.618 times as long as the next one. And the faces of people we consider to be beautiful have this number show up all over the place. Their mouths are 1.618 times as wide as their noses, and the distance between their pupils is about 1.618 times as wide as their mouths. This happens so frequently that some plastic surgeons have begun using this number to improve people's appearances.
Could it be that the golden ratio is part of the "blueprints" God used during creation?
You know, if you create a spiral based on Fibonacci numbers, where every quarter turn is 1.618 times as far from the center as the previous one, you get what is known as a golden spiral.
And oddly enough, most of the spirals found in nature are golden spirals. The shells of the nautilus and the snail, for example, are shaped in a golden spiral. So are hurricanes, ram's horns, the tails of seahorses, the cochlea of the human ear, whirlpools in the ocean, the seed patterns of sunflowers and pinecones, and the tail of a comet as it winds around the sun.
Not only that, but we have also discovered that the number of spirals in a sunflower or on a pinecone are always numbers from the Fibonacci sequence.
And furthermore, you'll notice that you can find spirals running in two directions on a pinecone, but the number of spirals running in each direction is not equal. Instead, you might have eight spirals running in one direction, and 13 running in the other. But the numbers are always neighbors from the Fibonacci sequence.
The list of golden ratios goes on and on and on. If you create ratios between the lengths of years of neighboring planets in our solar system, they are always made up of Fibonacci numbers.
And so are the arrangements of flower petals and the lengths of DNA molecules. In fact, a strand of DNA is a stack of rectangles all made in the same proportions as the Parthenon and other golden rectangles.
The neighboring leaves of some trees are arranged at 137.5 degrees from each other. That angle, amazingly, enables the highest number of leaves to have exposure to sunlight. But, even more amazing, when you draw that angle inside a circle, you get two pieces that are in the golden ratio to each other. The longest arc is, well, you guessed it, 1.618 times as long as the shortest one.
It just can't be a coincidence. From art and music to nature and science, the golden ratio keeps showing up over and over.
Ther are literally thousands of more examples, but I think I've made the point. The more you research the universe it becomes obvious that somebody designed it. We're not an accident. It's almost as if somebody deliberately used that number as a measuring stick for the cosmos.
Could it be that we are just starting to discover the "blueprints" of the universe? Could it be, when we find ourselves drawn irresistibly to something beautiful, it's because we are subconsciously recognizing the fingerprints of God? And what does that mean for you?
It means that you have a purpose. Somehow, somewhere, you fit into God's design. You are not an accident. You are not the product of mere chance over billions of years.
And to prove it to yourself, just go outside and take a look, because, as Paul says in Romans, chapter one, the more you look at creation, the more you are going to see God and will be without excuse for not believing in Him. RC
I came across an article first published in the Wall Street Journal in 1997. It was called "Science Resurrects God." And this is what it said:
...quote...
"...in recent decades, physicists have noticed an astonishing thing about the fundamental laws of nature. The 20 or so parameters they contain, numbers governing the strength of gravity, the ratio of the proton's size to the neutron's, and so on, appear to have been fine-tuned so that, against astronomically unfavorable odds, conscious organisms could emerge. Make gravity the slightest bit weaker, and no galaxies suitable for life would have formed; make it the slightest bit stronger and the cosmos would have collapsed upon itself moments after the big bang."
"The universe," as cosmologist Fred Hoyle once remarked, "looks like a "put-up job." Who but a Divine Designer could have twiddled with these 20 different "control knobs" until they were pointing at precisely the right values for the full array of life ultimately to appear."...unquote...
In the light of mounting evidence, the goddess of reason has been forced to nod her head in the direction of the Creator. Cosmologists today are looking for what some call the "theory of everything," or the "God particle," a theory or formula that will explain the architecture of the universe, because more and more, the numbers are pointing to the existence of God. The universe, it turns out, is not just a big empty space that goes on forever. The numbers prove that it has deliberate design.
Now, you'll notice in the Bible that God uses the language of architecture when He describes how He created the universe. He speaks of "foundations", "lines", and "measures". Even though the language may be for our benefit, it does say something important. It tells us that God just didn't throw things together haphazardly.
Most Big Bangers/Evolutionists believe everything just haphazardly came to be out of randomness, coincidence, or chance but to me this is just not the case. It seems to me that everything points to a carefully thought out plan or "blueprint" shall we say... to keep using architectural language.
You guys are gonna ask, "What do these next couple of paragraphs have to do with the point he's trying to make?", but just bear with me.
At the beginning of the 13th century, a mathematician by the name of Leonardo Pisano studied a problem that had a revolutionary answer. The problem was given to him by a member of the royal family, and it went something like this: "A certain man put a pair of rabbits in a large pen. How many pairs of rabbits can be produced from that pair in a year if every month each pair produces a new pair, which from the second month on becomes productive?"
On paper, Leonardo listed the number of rabbits at the end of each month, and came up with the following numerical sequence: 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, and so on. And what is cool about those numbers is that every number in the sequence was the sum of the two that came before it. One plus one is two, one plus two is three, three plus two is five, and so on.
Right about now is where you're asking, "So what? What does that have to do with God?" Well, more than you might think. As it turns out, Leonardo stumbled across a very important mathematical principle, known as he Fibonacci sequence, or Fibonacci numbers. (Same numbers that are used in the trading world.) And even though it was first used to count rabbits, it just might part of the "blueprints" used to create the universe.
Students of this special sequence of numbers have noticed that each number bears a special relationship to the numbers surrounding it. The ratio of any Fibonacci number to the one before it is roughly 1.618034, and the ratio of any Fibonacci number to the one after it is roughly 0.618034. Again, so what? Well, as it turns out, that's a very special ratio.
It is so special, in fact, that it's called the "golden ratio," and the ancient Greeks based a lot of their art and architecture on it. The length of the Parthenon, for example, is 1.618034 times as long as the width, and the width is 0.618034 times as long as the length. And they designed a lot of their pottery with the same ratio. Now why did they do that?
They did it because they believed that this special ratio was much more pleasing to the human eye than any other ratio. And surprisingly, the very things we still find artistically pleasing today still exhibit that very same ratio.
The face of the Mona Lisa, for example, is built on the golden ratio. It is 1.618 times as long as it is wide. And it's been noticed by some students of music that the stuff we find really beautiful has the same golden ratio, where the first movement is 1.618 times as long as the second one, for example.
So why is it that we find that number so pleasing to the eye and to the ear? Could it be because that ratio most closely resembles the work of the Master Artist? Do we find it beautiful because it mimics creation?
Just consider how often the golden ratio shows up in nature, and I think you'll see what I mean. It turns out that your forearm is approximately 1.618 times as long as your hand.
And each segment in your finger is roughly 1.618 times as long as the next one. And the faces of people we consider to be beautiful have this number show up all over the place. Their mouths are 1.618 times as wide as their noses, and the distance between their pupils is about 1.618 times as wide as their mouths. This happens so frequently that some plastic surgeons have begun using this number to improve people's appearances.
Could it be that the golden ratio is part of the "blueprints" God used during creation?
You know, if you create a spiral based on Fibonacci numbers, where every quarter turn is 1.618 times as far from the center as the previous one, you get what is known as a golden spiral.
And oddly enough, most of the spirals found in nature are golden spirals. The shells of the nautilus and the snail, for example, are shaped in a golden spiral. So are hurricanes, ram's horns, the tails of seahorses, the cochlea of the human ear, whirlpools in the ocean, the seed patterns of sunflowers and pinecones, and the tail of a comet as it winds around the sun.
Not only that, but we have also discovered that the number of spirals in a sunflower or on a pinecone are always numbers from the Fibonacci sequence.
And furthermore, you'll notice that you can find spirals running in two directions on a pinecone, but the number of spirals running in each direction is not equal. Instead, you might have eight spirals running in one direction, and 13 running in the other. But the numbers are always neighbors from the Fibonacci sequence.
The list of golden ratios goes on and on and on. If you create ratios between the lengths of years of neighboring planets in our solar system, they are always made up of Fibonacci numbers.
And so are the arrangements of flower petals and the lengths of DNA molecules. In fact, a strand of DNA is a stack of rectangles all made in the same proportions as the Parthenon and other golden rectangles.
The neighboring leaves of some trees are arranged at 137.5 degrees from each other. That angle, amazingly, enables the highest number of leaves to have exposure to sunlight. But, even more amazing, when you draw that angle inside a circle, you get two pieces that are in the golden ratio to each other. The longest arc is, well, you guessed it, 1.618 times as long as the shortest one.
It just can't be a coincidence. From art and music to nature and science, the golden ratio keeps showing up over and over.
Ther are literally thousands of more examples, but I think I've made the point. The more you research the universe it becomes obvious that somebody designed it. We're not an accident. It's almost as if somebody deliberately used that number as a measuring stick for the cosmos.
Could it be that we are just starting to discover the "blueprints" of the universe? Could it be, when we find ourselves drawn irresistibly to something beautiful, it's because we are subconsciously recognizing the fingerprints of God? And what does that mean for you?
It means that you have a purpose. Somehow, somewhere, you fit into God's design. You are not an accident. You are not the product of mere chance over billions of years.
And to prove it to yourself, just go outside and take a look, because, as Paul says in Romans, chapter one, the more you look at creation, the more you are going to see God and will be without excuse for not believing in Him. RC
Maybe you should convince people to read the Bible (you should capitalize the "B", by the way) by your actions, and doing things that make others want to investigate your motivation because they want to follow your footsteps.
That means following the actions of Jesus - serving your fellow man, helping the poor, being good and pure in your words and actions. Not constantly posting things on an Internet forum that give rise to divisive language and promote anger and hostility.
It amazes me how you "Christians" seem to forget the teachings of Jesus. Spend time on your actions, and people will follow if your actions are right, loving, caring, and pure. Stop causing controversy, fights, arguments, etc...and REALLY ask yourself "what would Jesus do" in every situation. You will be amazed at how it is the complete opposite of what you currently do and how you currently think/act.
If you spent as much time helping others and working to make a positive change in the world as you do posting here, you would be a candidate for sainthood.
Perhaps it is in trying to rationalize contradiction, defend the indefensible, that causes "Christians" to act the way they do. The so called loving Jesus that tortures for instance.
Aren't Christians always desperately trying to reconcile those conflicting values and all that is bad about Jesus - rather ridiculously - into good? No wonder some get frustrated and angry about contravening rationality that way.
There is no real necessity for any Jesus in order to do things that are and were done before and without Jesus: 'serving your fellow man, helping the poor, being good and pure in your words and actions' .
It is and was forever achieved by the standards of humanity. By being humane.
Worshipping a prankish imaginary friend so you might do some good, doesn't make all that much sense.
Could get irksome , make certain Christians want to fight.