Beware Health Care?

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from RedDuke:

What the hell is Bus Week smoking? What about all the jobs created in real estate industry over the last 5 years????

Actually, the article mentioned job creation in real estate and housing. I deliberately left that out because I didn't want my initial post to get too long. Yes, this was a secondary source of jobs, but according to the article it did not create as many as health care.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone expects that to continue nor will it be a "job creation engine" for the next several decades. I think we almost all recognize that the real estate environment of the last five years was a rare event created from the giant liquidity pool (or cesspool maybe) that was created from low interest rates and an unusual economic policy.

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from spinn:

Doctors have no incentive whatsoever to cure or help anyone. If they do, they will lose a patient.

I know what you're saying, but I am actually incredibly thankful for medical science. I cannot tell you how much good they have done for my family and friends.

I could list many examples, but here is just one: my Dad is 70 and a few years ago his knee gave out. He takes good care of himself overall and did nothing bone-jarring except for playing a lot of golf. But somehow the knee had a few chips in it that had worn off and so he could barely walk. Of course, the doctors went in with arthroscopic surgery and cleaned it out and now he's like brand new - almost shooting his age.

My Mom is another example. She had a catarract in one eye and would probably be blind in that eye right now except that the doctors popped in a lens surgicially.

I could go on and on. I know I'm going against the grain of the thread here, but I am very, very thankful for the "men in white"...

 

[Hook N. Sinker]

Quote from RedDuke:

This makes no sense, especially of you are cheap. What will happen to your bank account if you urgently need a surgery, such as appendix, kidney stone, bypass and so on. It can easily run over 100K???

Insurance is for poor people. Rich people reach into their pocket, pull out money and give it to the medical people.

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from Hook N. Sinker:

Insurance is for poor people. Rich people reach into their pocket, pull out money and give it to the medical people.

I would agree with you if your definition of poor is a net worth less than, say, a couple million.

 

[dougcs]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Just read the latest Bus Week cover story that explains that almost all job creation for the last five years has been in health care. They pointed out that almost 2 million IT jobs have been lost with the implication that lower paying health care jobs were substituted. And there's no end in sight - health care will probably be the only job creation engine of growth for America for several decades.

Now I believe in free markets and all that, but how that can be a healthy economic development - no pun intended - for the US? Most of health care is not really "exportable" and it seems more a sign of an aging, lifestyle-driven economy. Am I missing something here?

SNIP

Actually some health care is "exportable". For example, there are people going to Thailand for major surgery. The cost is much less than the US; the doctor's and staff are well trained, many getting trained in the US and Europe. Some insurance companies are accepting this.

I don't know if it is practcable; but it seems the multitude of non urgent lab tests could be done in Mexico.

Some drug testing is now being done in INdia.

FOr Thai medicine:

http://www.csmngt.com/medical2.htm

CBS report on Thai medicine:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/21/60minutes/main689998.shtml


DS

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from dougcs:

Actually some health care is "exportable". For example, there are people going to Thailand for major surgery. The cost is much less than the US; the doctor's and staff are well trained, many getting trained in the US and Europe. Some insurance companies are accepting this.

I don't know if it is practcable; but it seems the multitude of non urgent lab tests could be done in Mexico.

Some drug testing is now being done in INdia.

FOr Thai medicine:

http://www.csmngt.com/medical2.htm

CBS report on Thai medicine:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/21/60minutes/main689998.shtml


DS

Int'g links. Thx for posting them.

But what I meant by exportable is creating a product that the US can sell and make money on overseas. America traing foreign docs and the watching them go back to their homelands is a weak export imo: the US makes little to no money off of it. Yes, the US makes some money off these foreigners when they come in to get trained, but the real cash is made when these docs go back to their homeland and American gets little to nothing off of that (although any US drug companies and medical suppliers do benefit because now these docs are trained in western medicine and order accordingly). But, again, isn't this chump change when you consider that 25% of our GNP is going to be health care?

 

[RedDuke]

Quote from Hook N. Sinker:

Insurance is for poor people. Rich people reach into their pocket, pull out money and give it to the medical people.

Congratulations on being so rich. But your original argument was that you are cheap and not that you do not care about the cost cause paying 100K for you is like going to starbuck for the rest.

 

[Raystonn]

I believe what you are missing is that he is acting as his own insurance company. Insurance companies aren't in business out of the generosity in their hearts. The business is profitable. On average, premiums take in more than medical services cost.

Thus, if you have enough money to underwrite your own health "policy", then you will save money doing this on average. Of course, if your health hits a six sigma event, then you will be wishing you had dumped the risk on someone else. But so would any insurance company.

If you are reasonably healthy and have no major risk factors, self insuring is not a bad idea. But it may still be a good idea to get a policy with a massive deductible, just to cover those six sigma events.

-Raystonn

 

[dingtrader]

you're right, its going to create more jobs, right before breaking our country into bankruptsy

 

[fframe38]

Quote from Raystonn:

I believe what you are missing is that he is acting as his own insurance company. Insurance companies aren't in business out of the generosity in their hearts. The business is profitable. On average, premiums take in more than medical services cost.

Thus, if you have enough money to underwrite your own health "policy", then you will save money doing this on average. Of course, if your health hits a six sigma event, then you will be wishing you had dumped the risk on someone else. But so would any insurance company.

If you are reasonably healthy and have no major risk factors, self insuring is not a bad idea. But it may still be a good idea to get a policy with a massive deductible, just to cover those six sigma events.

-Raystonn

A couple big problems with this approach:

1. Insurance companies are given "cut rates" which are much less than the stated rates. This means they actually pay a lot less than the stated cost for most procedures and supplies. Uninsured individuals are going to be charged the stated rates ( much higher - sometimes 30-40% more), and will have a much tougher time negotiating them down since there is no leverage with one person acting alone. You might get them to agree to less if you give them a "hardship scenario", but the whole premise of the story is that you have enough money to pay for the stuff that might happen. Once the hospitals, labs, and doctors figure that out, you will not be seeing any discounts.

2. You could get in a life threatening situation, and be dumped into an inferior hospital or medical center because you have "no insurance". The hospitals will assume you have no money, and you could be in such a state that you can't communicate to them otherwise. If you need some sort of very expensive procedure, or something above and beyond the norm, you may not receive that care, since the assumption is that the hospital will not be paid for it.