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Beware - critical flaw in IB Ideal Pro
- Thread starter TraderTony
- Start date
On IDEALPro FX you can trade any amount over the minimum, period. So you can send an order in EURUSD for EUR 25,001 if you want.
Their MMs should accept the balance of orders submitted that are over the minimum and then partially fill. Having any remnant under the minimum go unfilled is nothing short of complete theft.
Also, the way that they move their markets, it is hard to believe that their MMs want to provide markets for anything. Why is it that when you have a small limit, they move their entire market? They fade so fast it is amazing... Most liquid market in the world - right. Most crooked - close.
Their MMs should accept the balance of orders submitted that are over the minimum and then partially fill. Having any remnant under the minimum go unfilled is nothing short of complete theft.
Also, the way that they move their markets, it is hard to believe that their MMs want to provide markets for anything. Why is it that when you have a small limit, they move their entire market? They fade so fast it is amazing... Most liquid market in the world - right. Most crooked - close.
Quote from def:
Herry, I'm sorry but you really have no clue what you're talking about.
Hi Def,
Can you explain your response? I suppose there could be more to the story than what appears in the other thread, but at face value it is worrisome. With very few exceptions, every problem trade (out-trades, miscommunication, broker error, etc.) I've ever had has been resolved with the broker the same day, usually immediately via phone. In the few exceptions, they were always resolved by the next morning. Thanks.
Something else to keep in mind -- in general (not always but in many many cases) the level 1 CSRs are not highly trained, and in many cases they are paid close to minimum wage and there is very high turnover (not just IB -- at all brokerages). I've dealt with some real ninnies over the years at TD Waterhouse and a few other brokers.
When it's a significant matter you need to ask the level 1 guy to escalate right away. I'm not saying you didn't in this case -- I'm just saying in any case where tens of thousands of dollars are on the line you need to escalate (or try). Also make sure you get the name, number, SSN, underwear size, etc of anyone you talk to, and write down a summary of the call when you're done. Good record keeping could help you down the road if things turn out badly.
Also, always make sure audit trail is turned on in TWS. Always!
When it's a significant matter you need to ask the level 1 guy to escalate right away. I'm not saying you didn't in this case -- I'm just saying in any case where tens of thousands of dollars are on the line you need to escalate (or try). Also make sure you get the name, number, SSN, underwear size, etc of anyone you talk to, and write down a summary of the call when you're done. Good record keeping could help you down the road if things turn out badly.
Also, always make sure audit trail is turned on in TWS. Always!
I would also convey that you are recording the call and do so. Even if you are not recording it, you should state this. Tell them that you "hope that they are doing the right thing according to regulations and policies"...
and I agree, trigger finger on escalation. With the amount of commissions we generate for these brokers?
and I agree, trigger finger on escalation. With the amount of commissions we generate for these brokers?
Quote from Trader_Herry:
I thin you should switch brokers like Oanda. It is much better. Unlike IB, you can trade small orders, so you will never encounter such a silly mistake like this.
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Herry no offence but what's your obsession with Oanda? You've mentioned them several times in this thread and over on the other board. Oanda is the last forex broker on earth I would recommend. "Low spreads" is a joke because they have up to 25 pip spreads during news releases. IdealPro may not be ideal (no pun intended) but I'm sure it's better than Oanda.
Too funny. IB is unprofessional? Trader Herry. Tsk Tsk.
IB is as close to professional as you're going to get in retail. I'm surprised they actually allow 25,000 deal size as no pro or prime broker does because banks don't. Especially the ones with all the liquidity like UBS, RBS, Bear Stearns, etc. Standard deal size in the pro arena is $1,000,000.
If someone is going to do small size, trade the CME currency futures. There's nothing to it. To find the cash equivalent price, you simply add the forward points to the cash or subtract the forward points from the future.
You could go on CME's website and look at their "e-quivalents page." Or if TWS is up, compare the future with the cash and add or subtract to get the Forward points. They move in lock step 99% of the time. And is perfect for swing and position trading.
Only thing is, 1 currency futures contract is set at a deal size of 125,000.
Oanda is great if you're doing small size. And if you're not daytrading news events. Fact is no one is great of you're trading news events. IB is great if you're doing >$100,000 and even better if you're doing $500,000 and up.
IB is as close to professional as you're going to get in retail. I'm surprised they actually allow 25,000 deal size as no pro or prime broker does because banks don't. Especially the ones with all the liquidity like UBS, RBS, Bear Stearns, etc. Standard deal size in the pro arena is $1,000,000.
If someone is going to do small size, trade the CME currency futures. There's nothing to it. To find the cash equivalent price, you simply add the forward points to the cash or subtract the forward points from the future.
You could go on CME's website and look at their "e-quivalents page." Or if TWS is up, compare the future with the cash and add or subtract to get the Forward points. They move in lock step 99% of the time. And is perfect for swing and position trading.
Only thing is, 1 currency futures contract is set at a deal size of 125,000.
Oanda is great if you're doing small size. And if you're not daytrading news events. Fact is no one is great of you're trading news events. IB is great if you're doing >$100,000 and even better if you're doing $500,000 and up.
I once had the same problem - 30000 order was partially filled. 5000 left and were submited to Ideal but at limit price not market.
But spread for Ideal is quite big and limit was not filled. So I experienced loss and then had to submit my order manually and pay another commission
I do understand some people trade forex with 1 000 000 lots but sometimes I just need to convert to purchase stock in different currency.
IDEAL has wide unacceptable spread and IDEAL Pro is not reliable
But spread for Ideal is quite big and limit was not filled. So I experienced loss and then had to submit my order manually and pay another commission
I do understand some people trade forex with 1 000 000 lots but sometimes I just need to convert to purchase stock in different currency.
IDEAL has wide unacceptable spread and IDEAL Pro is not reliable
ddunbar -
Do you really find IB's behaviour in this matter as professional as you can get?
It is not a question of whether they should or should not offer minimum size as low as $25,000. The fact is they do and therefore it ought to work properly for customers who use it.
And even that is irrelevant - the issue is that their system allowed a partial fill on a stop order that LEFT a balance lower than their minimum trade size which could not then be filled. In principle, this would appear to be possible whatever the original position size. A $1m position could have been partially filled for, say $980,000 and exactly the same outcome would have resulted with a $20,000 position left stuck in the system.
It is a serious system flaw. That in itself is not unprofessional in my opinion. However, failing to both promptly sort out the consequences when the issue is brought to their attention and to provide reassurance that the system is fixed to prevent it happening in future are more than a little disappointing.
Do you really find IB's behaviour in this matter as professional as you can get?
It is not a question of whether they should or should not offer minimum size as low as $25,000. The fact is they do and therefore it ought to work properly for customers who use it.
And even that is irrelevant - the issue is that their system allowed a partial fill on a stop order that LEFT a balance lower than their minimum trade size which could not then be filled. In principle, this would appear to be possible whatever the original position size. A $1m position could have been partially filled for, say $980,000 and exactly the same outcome would have resulted with a $20,000 position left stuck in the system.
It is a serious system flaw. That in itself is not unprofessional in my opinion. However, failing to both promptly sort out the consequences when the issue is brought to their attention and to provide reassurance that the system is fixed to prevent it happening in future are more than a little disappointing.
Quote from TraderTony:
ddunbar -
Do you really find IB's behaviour in this matter as professional as you can get?
It is not a question of whether they should or should not offer minimum size as low as $25,000. The fact is they do and therefore it ought to work properly for customers who use it.
And even that is irrelevant - the issue is that their system allowed a partial fill on a stop order that LEFT a balance lower than their minimum trade size which could not then be filled. In principle, this would appear to be possible whatever the original position size. A $1m position could have been partially filled for, say $980,000 and exactly the same outcome would have resulted with a $20,000 position left stuck in the system.
It is a serious system flaw. That in itself is not unprofessional in my opinion. However, failing to both promptly sort out the consequences when the issue is brought to their attention and to provide reassurance that the system is fixed to prevent it happening in future are more than a little disappointing.
OK, you're right. And an order that small should be done on a FOK basis.
But I was contrasting the type of services with that of actual professional level brokers. It's one of those, "unless you experienced pro level service..."
IB does try to dissuade from opening small accounts. From their advertizing slogan "the professional's choice," to their low commissions, to their non-payment of credit interest below $10,000.