best ways to tell that S or R is holding?

Quote from bighog:

Lets keep it simple, short and sweet. EXAMPLE: you are looking at price approaching a resist level for the first time and you want a continuation of price advancing up from the previous leg. Lets assume the resist is yesterdays high price. Price gets to within 2 ticks of the resist and starts to slow down and actually retreats some. Many will assume the resist has held and rookies will actually go short............... WRONG!!!!

Price sniffed the previous resist area like a dog at the hydrant, the dog and the trader both know what they want but are suspicious. Price went up and backed off because the rise in price slowed down as the longs saw no new blood coming in to push price past the resist so they took profits before the resist point and that caused the small retracement. The sellers gained no floowers either as the retracement was shallow which told the longs and potential new longs to expect another attempt at the highs. The dog is thinking seriously about claiming the hydrant because he does not smell danger as he like thre traders still know what they want.

maybe we see the same scenario played out for a second time. NOW the next test is going to be serious because a mkt that can not go up will come down from the simple fact of no buyers to h9old price up and thus the longs will want to sell out of a weak mkt.


On the 3rd try price takes out the high and your job changes from watching for a breakout to be on the alert for a false breakout. Once price breaks out you immediately want to see price follow through by bringing in either new longs that are now believers or shorts bailing out and buying to cover their ass. You care less who, why the buyers are because your mission is simple price action.

IF price starts to slow AFTER the breakout you again immediately assume you are in danger because the new blood in not coming into the mkt. The dog that just let loose would run if another dog came along and chased him away from his new hydrant.

Learn how to WORK breakouts and you will not be afraid of them because you can manage a flase breakout. You must take the breakouts in order to catch the "RUN". There is a reason why chickens are food for others as there is a reason why lions are the KING of the jungle. Which are you?

False breakouts can actually be good to pay for commissions because most breakouts will give you a few ticks and if you read price action properly you can grab a couple ticks before it comes back to the breakout point.

Put yourself in the other traders shoes and imagine what they will do when price does what price will do.

there is no way to tell about price action because we all react as we will when price does what price will do. This is a mkt of the PLAYERS and the shorter the time frame (down to 5 minutes only because less than that is just noise and trading noise is a fools game), the less fundamentals and blabber, a bias, thinking etc matter. Your game is to trade and not to intellectualize this stuff. Trade it or be square.

OK, thats it to many posts this weekend. Winter is cold and sleet out so stuck inside this weekend. Far, FAR less posts and chat this new year. Enjoy the new year.

Great explanation about breakouts. I'm gonna read it a few times so it really sinks in.

Another scenario I was thinking about when I wrote the original post is when price breaks through R and then retraces to test that former R as new S. If my goal was to enter long as soon as I became convinced that the new S was in fact holding, what would I want to see before doing it?

And a happy new year to you too!
 
Quote from NoProblem:

After that, to help avoid getting shook out, trapped or fooled, learn to use the two bar break w/ low volume pull back lesson that SnP500Trader on YouTube teaches.

Steve

Steve, I looked at that guy's videos on YouTube but there are over 150 and they all have the same title!
Any chance you can give me a link to the specific video you're talking about? Or maybe another source explaining the two bar break?

Thanks.
 
Quote from Johnzo:

What's up traders,

I think if you want real time view of when S/R levels could be holding or weakening, you will want to incorporate reading the order flow.

If we want to short the S&P at 900. Which for this example is a resistance level, we will want to look at the orders that are coming in as price approaches the 900 level. If there are massive amounts of offers and a high volume of contracts trying to be filled short that is a start that maybe 900 will hold. The next step is to pay attention and watch to see if the orders are filled. Say price approached 900 and the size of the offers shrinks or most are taken off before filled then that could have been a trap to lure traders into setting their shorts ahead of the size so the pros longs can be filled. When the contracts are taken off that mean that the "smart" money way be looking at longs and luring speculators into filling there longs with going short. If that happens and price break above you can usually scalp it long based on the fact that there may not be much volume above the 900 level which will allow the price to run up.

If the volume stands and the contracts stay open at those prices as the price approaches 900 and they are then filled, you may want to short because that could be proof that for the time being resistance is holding.

Does this help?

Johnzo

Everyone is free to critique this.

John,
I've read a bit of stuff on order flow here on ET and it does seem like it could be useful.
The thing I'm trying to get help on is when a level looks like it's holding, and then price trades through it.
In the original example, price is trading higher toward an expected R level. It gets to the level and stalls out for a bar or two, and maybe even trades a bit lower making me think that the level held and that it's cool to enter short. Then it reverses and rallys up through the R.
If I was watching order flow, it doesn't seem like it would help any in this situation. I would see the patterns in the order flow exactly as you described, but after the mkt traded lower a few ticks, then a bunch of buy volume would come in and cause the market to continue higher through the level.
I might be able to see the demand coming into the market a couple of seconds sooner by watching the order flow but it doesn't seem like it would really tell me anything that I wasn't already seeing in price. But I'll be the first to admit that I know very little about reading the flow.
Does my analysis make sense or am I missing something?
Thanks.
 
Quote from flier6:

I need some help in regards to determining if a level is holding or not in real time.
Let's say that price is trading up toward a resistance level that I think will hold and I want to get short at that level. What are the things I should be looking for before entering short?
Thanks for your help.

First of all, s/r levels are not trade signals themselves.

Simply, you need to have a trade signal that's independent of the s/r analysis to prevent having an ambiguous trading plan.

Another way to look at it...if your trade signal doesn't appear when the price action reaches a s/r level...

No trade.

Therefore, what your asking is for trade signals.

To answer your question now...look around EliteTrader.com because there are hundreds of threads where traders discuss trade signals (e.g. price action only, indicators et cetera).

Mark
 
Quote from flier6:

Steve, I looked at that guy's videos on YouTube but there are over 150 and they all have the same title!
Any chance you can give me a link to the specific video you're talking about? Or maybe another source explaining the two bar break?

Thanks.

I know it's tough to do a search on his stuff, but here is one I found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76Y8dxY1Q4E&feature=channel_page&fmt=18

He goes into more detail in some of his other videos, but I found this one to get ya jump started.

If you have the opportunity to participate in his chat room, some of the traders in there are pretty good at spotting these indications.

Steve
 
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