best ways to go long/short volatility...

[cdcaveman]

you wander what happen to some of these reverse gamma scaplers.. i like actually how they call it bleeding or scapling.. kinda violent aha

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=207638&perpage=6&pagenumber=1

 

[rocky_raccoon]

Quote from cdcaveman:

ahh i see.. i've never opened a iron fly position.. if thats the deall thats the deal.... i wouldn't ever say i bought a credit spread... you sell credit spreads.. buy debit spreads... double negatives are a bitch.. kinda werid you would sell an iron even though its almost the same thing as with just calls or puts.. sure it acts a little difference because of the different pricing of the puts to the calls.. but doesn't put/call parity make it about the same?

There are differences between iron and put/call 'flies. The only time they are the same (theoretically) is at the expiration. ATM IB has smaller spreads due to the fact most legs are OTM.

It also behaves differently when UL crashes down and the call premiums evaporate while long put delta grows faster than short put delta. The whole position may gain if the IV of the long puts becomes larger then the IV of the short put even if the long put becomes ITM.

 

[atticus]

Dec12/Sep13 SPX 1450 calendar. 27 x 16 theta (1.69x). Size 30 x 51. Vol-line in pic.

 

[newwurldmn]

Quote from rocky_raccoon:

There are differences between iron and put/call 'flies. The only time they are the same (theoretically) is at the expiration. ATM IB has smaller spreads due to the fact most legs are OTM.

It also behaves differently when UL crashes down and the call premiums evaporate while long put delta grows faster than short put delta. The whole position may gain if the IV of the long puts becomes larger then the IV of the short put even if the long put becomes ITM.

Iron flys and callflys are the same everywhere except in implied dividends and borrow.
In fact the only two differences would be easier execution for the ironfly and expiration on a pin could yield different results. Easier execution because there's less delta being traded. And difference on a pin because of of different options. I'm not aware of any difference in expected value as a result of the expiration.

 

[atticus]

Quote from newwurldmn:

Iron flys and callflys are the same everywhere except in implied dividends and borrow.
In fact the only two differences would be easier execution for the ironfly and expiration on a pin could yield different results. Easier execution because there's less delta being traded. And difference on a pin because of of different options. I'm not aware of any difference in expected value as a result of the expiration.

There isn't any diff as long as the implied forward is insignificant. Best to use the $ risk to define the fly and whether you're long or short gamma from inception. Obviously outside the wings the gamma position is less relevant as a descriptor.

 

[rocky_raccoon]

Ironflies and callfiles have different spreads and that is especially true at the expiration. However, I don't hold IB till expiration anyhow. I open it ATM and I close it ATM. That makes IB superior from the trade execution perspective.

 

[cdcaveman]

Quote from newwurldmn:

Iron flys and callflys are the same everywhere except in implied dividends and borrow.
In fact the only two differences would be easier execution for the ironfly and expiration on a pin could yield different results. Easier execution because there's less delta being traded. And difference on a pin because of of different options. I'm not aware of any difference in expected value as a result of the expiration.

because of borrow? meaning the cost to short stock and hedge .... dividends meaning what is baked in considering dividends of holding long underlying as hedge?

 

[atticus]

Quote from cdcaveman:

because of borrow? meaning the cost to short stock and hedge .... dividends meaning what is baked in considering dividends of holding long underlying as hedge?

Calendars are often way off (same strike prem) due to divies.

 

[newwurldmn]

Quote from atticus:

There isn't any diff as long as the implied forward is insignificant. Best to use the $ risk to define the fly and whether you're long or short gamma from inception. Obviously outside the wings the gamma position is less relevant as a descriptor.

That is true.

And while the industry uses debit = buy, I think it's better to define by gamma as well.

This was always a problem for me. Brokers would call with risk reversals and I would ask them to spell out the legs.

EDIT: European ADR's would be the exception. Often they pay large divs (5%ish) 1x/year.

 

[bogeyman89]

if you have the risk tolerance, clearly selling straddles and strangles gives you the most volatility exposure.

theoretically, you'd be ok selling 90 day options to establish your position.

what's the risk level you are comfortable with? this would also depend on which stocks you intend to sell; google or bp? risk capital comes into the picture.