Best Thing for U.S. Economy: Raise Taxes

The dem-rats and re-pubic-lans hold total power. They will never allow a third party to challenge them.

So the question is, how do we change the system? I just dont see it happening.

Whenever someone thinks about voting for a third party, everyone starts screaming that your throwing your vote away and giving the election away to the party you dont like.

Americans are just too stupid to stand up to the BS. They are not in enough pain to do something about it. Too fat, lazy and comfortable to do something radical.
 
quote from Moreaqr...

the massive inflation was caused by LBJ and the great society spending, bretton woods 1971 collapse -- the dollar drooped like a rock after 1971 when the gold standard was drooped .1973 oil embargo and the price controls of Nixon did not help. spending from vietnam.

cuts help alot it gave an incentive to invest both personally and business. look at GDP growth inflation and M1 M2 figures

I think i can go along with this provided spending is reduced or increases are spent on investments rather than on wasting assets.

Someone said what was needed was a "moderate Libertarian." I think i can go with that so long as the word "moderate" is there. Isn't Paul running as a Republican this time around?

I'm not one to think that everything the government does is done poorly. I would hate to live in a country without the NIH, without the coastguard, without a national park system, without a Federal Courts system, without a State Department, and without minimal defense forces, for example.

I agree with others who have said, controlling expenditures and spending wisely are the key. It just seems to me that we have lost our representative form of democracy, and unless we reclaim that, we are doomed to continue down the present path of unwise spending, encouraged ad infinitum by special interests. For example, though I have absolutely know specific knowledge to back this up, I'd be schocked, absolutely schocked, if it turned out that lobbyists and think tanks supported by the defense industry were not the driving force behind deployment of the anti-missile system that Bush is proposing to install in Poland.
 
Trader Dragon said Americans are just too stupid to stand up to the BS. They are not in enough pain to do something about it. Too fat, lazy and comfortable to do something radical.

Trader Dragon, could it not be a case where there is such a large proportion of voters now who have a vested interest in this government program or that that they can not bring themselves to vote against the status quo? This is surely one mechanism for perpetuation of bad government.

As an example of how it has become nearly impossible for the government to reform itself, we had to appoint a special "base closing commission" whose decisions were binding before we could close even one unneeded military base. If this decision had been left to Congress no bases would have been closed.

The only reforms now possible are in areas were mainly the economically powerless are affected, and the economically powerful don't have a vested interest.
 
Indeed, thus I believe vote republican because there are much more rational than the liberals which say they want freedom for you...but in reality do complete opposite!
 
Quote from gnome:

Sure. We pay it off with Monopoly/Charmin Dollars.... but all of us Americans are also left with the same ass-wipe for money. NO THANKS!!
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Wow gnome, been reading through this thread. didn't realize you and I share so many opinions.

Consumption tax is really growing on me too. I think it is the best way to go. Pay for what you use not on what you earn. I have a sort of warped view on property tax because it is quite low in my state. 0.5% and property here is one of the lowest places in the nation. So here I say keep property tax I guess. Makes no difference to me.

Income tax should be done away with. But I did run the numbers for the average person in America. A vast majority of people pay less than 16% of their income to income tax.

A flat rate tax that makes everyone pay >15% sucks. People must be taxed on consumption, but I realize this theoretically discourages consumer spending. I think it would balance relatively quickly though. People already get taxed for every gallon of gasoline and non-prepared food is already tax exempt. The system is in place.

What a great way to eliminate the need to try to make illegals and evaders pay their share of tax. While at the same time encouraging people to live within their means, save, and secure their future.
 
Quote from TorontoTrader2:

Interesting. You would think that people who have to pay for their own health care would actuallly take care of their own health. But we see reports that claim the majority of americans are obese - a society built around fast food and sugar and caffeine? Surely they don't all have employers who pay for health care?

But what do these employers do, why they raise the cost of their good/services in order to cover the cost. So we ALL pay for it. Isn't that socialism?

Quote from rateesquad:

Not at all,


A. Americans are obese b/c of many reason...im not going to get in detail but summarize...food is very cheap here..avg US citzen spends only 11% on food from their budget lowest in any nation...this is due to capitalism....more food for less money...

B. You are Canadian which would not understand Americans.....just like I won't understand Canadians or French people.... sorry I had to put it in there...

C. Wha I hear form my cousins fiancee is that you have to wait a year to get an MRI in the great north.

D. The employer can raise their prices all they want...it dos not matter b/c markets will deterrmine the price of te product..and not individuals like is communism....market determine price in capitalism...

I would like to discuss, this further but I am of to college....I am taking summer classes...in Political Science..interesting stuff...have to debate against my liberal teacher on same issues.
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But TorontoTrader is right about the food. The Americans don't like healthy food, they won't even let it across the border. Every year when we go to vacation there, the American Customs agent asks us if we have any fruits or vegetables. We're not allowed to bring that into your country. We're allowed things like Twinkies and doughnuts though.
 
Quote from Sam Mcgee:

Quote from TorontoTrader2:

Interesting. You would think that people who have to pay for their own health care would actuallly take care of their own health. But we see reports that claim the majority of americans are obese - a society built around fast food and sugar and caffeine? Surely they don't all have employers who pay for health care?

But what do these employers do, why they raise the cost of their good/services in order to cover the cost. So we ALL pay for it. Isn't that socialism?




But TorontoTrader is right about the food. The Americans don't like healthy food, they won't even let it across the border. Every year when we go to vacation there, the American Customs agent asks us if we have any fruits or vegetables. We're not allowed to bring that into your country. We're allowed things like Twinkies and doughnuts though.
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Why do you think fruits and vegetables are forbidden? Have you considered that fruits and vegetables can have a variety of non natives pests that we don't want infecting our crops?

As for our society being built around junk food.....not true....we are a society that gives one lots of choices...and the fact remains, in 200 years, we have done more, accomplished more, and become more productive then the rest of the world has in 5000 years.
 
Quote from Sam Mcgee:

Quote from TorontoTrader2:

Interesting. You would think that people who have to pay for their own health care would actuallly take care of their own health. But we see reports that claim the majority of americans are obese - a society built around fast food and sugar and caffeine? Surely they don't all have employers who pay for health care?

But what do these employers do, why they raise the cost of their good/services in order to cover the cost. So we ALL pay for it. Isn't that socialism?




But TorontoTrader is right about the food. The Americans don't like healthy food, they won't even let it across the border. Every year when we go to vacation there, the American Customs agent asks us if we have any fruits or vegetables. We're not allowed to bring that into your country. We're allowed things like Twinkies and doughnuts though.
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So what is your point? Americans prefer unhealthy food to healthy..

Then let me ask you why do Americans live more years then about 90% of the people in the world? Are their choices that irrational that they kill themselves. Or you believe they eat unhealthy food b/c they don't exercise....I eat unhealthy food....Wendy's everyday...Unfortunatly that is all I can afford with tuition to college to be payed and let me say NYC is not a cheap city live in...back to the point...I eat fast food everyday.

Think of it as that movi..Super size me....but I exercise regulary...thus I stay fit...actually more than fit....not that I like to brag :D . So are you saying that Americans choose to eat unhealthy food but they still live longer than 90% of the world...how can that occur?????
 
Quote from Madison:

there is no such thing as a "substitute" tax -- if the US were to implement a federal consumption tax system, eventually, the end result would be an income tax AND a consumption tax.
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How about a national consumption tax (Sales Tax) for the masses and a continued income tax for all corporations -- just to give the IRS and tax accountants something to do.

I know I will be happy to expel the April 15 annual night mare.

:p
 
Stylark says: How about a national consumption tax (Sales Tax) for the masses and a continued income tax for all corporations -- just to give the IRS and tax accountants something to do.

Stylark, with your ability to find clever compromises you should consider running for national office.
 
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