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Best Prop Firms For A Beginner
- Thread starter saltycoot
- Start date
Similar discussions come up every couple of years, let me try to explain our perspective.
New traders make an assumption that a "true prop" shop can make them good traders and only share in their profits (If they have that magic bullet, I haven't seen it, LOL). Well, say you actually do make money, say $10K per month, and you get to keeep $5K or so. After 4 months, you have $20K of Your money gone in lieu of putting up money and keeping all of your profits. Not good for successful traders. If you don't make money, they obciously won't keep you.
Our traders put up $$, but keep all their profits. We do have an interest in helping them stay with the Firm. In our opinion, they have a much better chance of staying with us IF they keep all their profits. Our retention rate is partly based on the individual trader's desire to make a long term business out of trading. Over Half of our Traders have been with us 5 years or longer, showing that this can be a long term career.
Our model does offer training from some of the best traders on the planet, and yes, some of we charge for...and it's well worth it. Our basic class, which is open to the public, is a great springboard for traders who are new to the business. Individual traders will learn in various ways, and take to one or several techniques more than the others. Our ongoing Mentoring etc. has proven to be very valuable, some opting to grow into being a Mentor themselves. Learning never ends, especially in this business. We must all adapt to market conditions.
All that being said, I understand that our business model is not for everyone. And, FWIW, when we have so many traders coming from other Firm's, I think our rates are comparable when everything is considered.
Rollover Day today - ESU9 etc. Trade well!!
Don BTW, Florida Traders check our website - join me for a free dinner.
New traders make an assumption that a "true prop" shop can make them good traders and only share in their profits (If they have that magic bullet, I haven't seen it, LOL). Well, say you actually do make money, say $10K per month, and you get to keeep $5K or so. After 4 months, you have $20K of Your money gone in lieu of putting up money and keeping all of your profits. Not good for successful traders. If you don't make money, they obciously won't keep you.
Our traders put up $$, but keep all their profits. We do have an interest in helping them stay with the Firm. In our opinion, they have a much better chance of staying with us IF they keep all their profits. Our retention rate is partly based on the individual trader's desire to make a long term business out of trading. Over Half of our Traders have been with us 5 years or longer, showing that this can be a long term career.
Our model does offer training from some of the best traders on the planet, and yes, some of we charge for...and it's well worth it. Our basic class, which is open to the public, is a great springboard for traders who are new to the business. Individual traders will learn in various ways, and take to one or several techniques more than the others. Our ongoing Mentoring etc. has proven to be very valuable, some opting to grow into being a Mentor themselves. Learning never ends, especially in this business. We must all adapt to market conditions.
All that being said, I understand that our business model is not for everyone. And, FWIW, when we have so many traders coming from other Firm's, I think our rates are comparable when everything is considered.
Rollover Day today - ESU9 etc. Trade well!!
Don BTW, Florida Traders check our website - join me for a free dinner.
Quote from Don Bright:
Similar discussions come up every couple of years, let me try to explain our perspective.
New traders make an assumption that a "true prop" shop can make them good traders and only share in their profits (If they have that magic bullet, I haven't seen it, LOL). Well, say you actually do make money, say $10K per month, and you get to keeep $5K or so. After 4 months, you have $20K of Your money gone in lieu of putting up money and keeping all of your profits. Not good for successful traders. If you don't make money, they obciously won't keep you.
Our traders put up $$, but keep all their profits. We do have an interest in helping them stay with the Firm. In our opinion, they have a much better chance of staying with us IF they keep all their profits. Our retention rate is partly based on the individual trader's desire to make a long term business out of trading. Over Half of our Traders have been with us 5 years or longer, showing that this can be a long term career.
Our model does offer training from some of the best traders on the planet, and yes, some of we charge for...and it's well worth it. Our basic class, which is open to the public, is a great springboard for traders who are new to the business. Individual traders will learn in various ways, and take to one or several techniques more than the others. Our ongoing Mentoring etc. has proven to be very valuable, some opting to grow into being a Mentor themselves. Learning never ends, especially in this business. We must all adapt to market conditions.
All that being said, I understand that our business model is not for everyone. And, FWIW, when we have so many traders coming from other Firm's, I think our rates are comparable when everything is considered.
Rollover Day today - ESU9 etc. Trade well!!
Don BTW, Florida Traders check our website - join me for a free dinner.
No offense, this doesn't make sense for a new trader.
If you trade for a firm that gives out 100% payout, then it doesn't matter if you are profitable. Yes, they can make more commission dollars from you, but considering the high turnover rate of traders it doesn't really matter.
A new trader should look for a firm where HE HAS NO FINANCIAL RISK. For this reason, the payout will be low... could be 50%, but the firm is invested to make you profitable. The firm only makes money if you are profitable. They will do whatever it takes to make you profitable. THAT IS THE BEST SCENARIO. You could have 100% payout, but what does it matter if you loss money? You also can lose your entire initial contribution ($25,000 in Bright's case).
From what I understand, bright charges a fee for a "learning" seminar. That's bullsh!t. Never pay for training. Bright also allows remote traders to newbies.... newbies should only start on a trading desk because that is the best place to learn.A new trader also should not risk $25,000 in capital... as Bright requires. With 100% payout, he doesn't make money from you having a positive P/L. He makes money from you for commissions and other fees.
Quote from monty21:
From what I understand, bright charges a fee for a "learning" seminar. That's bullsh!t. Never pay for training. Bright also allows remote traders to newbies.... newbies should only start on a trading desk because that is the best place to learn.A new trader also should not risk $25,000 in capital... as Bright requires. With 100% payout, he doesn't make money from you having a positive P/L. He makes money from you for commissions and other fees. [/B]
If a Bright trader is on a losing streak, don't expect a phone call asking you what is up, if everything is OK, if they can help.
Expect a phone call asking you to put more money in your account.
The initial three day "sign up" seminar, all their live trading or sample trades are with 1000 or 5000 shares for starters. They like to play the open and scalp. The day there was live trading, the winners were scalped for a small profit. The loser was held and more shares were added as losses mounted, waiting for the reversal, which never happened.
Simple math shows scalping a dime on five trades with 5000 shares (minus commission), any profit would be nullified by the 6th going against you 38 cents. The odds are very high 1 out of 6 trades will be a loser. Since we all know that we can only expect to win half our trades on a good day, how can money be made?
I'm sure their blow-out rate is very high.
Good post logikos
New traders have no business starting with Bright. Putting up $25,000 and getting crazy leverage is not too smart for a new guy.
I'm not knocking his firm, but its not for new traders.
I completely understand the scalping example. I used to trade something like that... it involved scaling in aka "losing to a position" multiple times until it finally went my way. It worked great in November and the beginning of December, but the market taught me a lesson in January when it just trended in one direction intraday.
I think the mathematical term is martingale or something... where 1 loser is the same as 6 winners (actually the mathematical example is 99 winners are replaced by 1 loser) .
New traders have no business starting with Bright. Putting up $25,000 and getting crazy leverage is not too smart for a new guy.
I'm not knocking his firm, but its not for new traders.
I completely understand the scalping example. I used to trade something like that... it involved scaling in aka "losing to a position" multiple times until it finally went my way. It worked great in November and the beginning of December, but the market taught me a lesson in January when it just trended in one direction intraday.
I think the mathematical term is martingale or something... where 1 loser is the same as 6 winners (actually the mathematical example is 99 winners are replaced by 1 loser) .
Yeh I definitely wouldn't go with bright any way. All my friends that are good traders all started out in firms where they didn't have to put up capital and they recieved great training their first year. The only firm that i've heard of in the NYC area that does train their traders is RBC capital I hear the payouts aren't the best but they are a good firm. RBC doesn't require initial capital but if you leave and have negative equity you do have to pay it back which i have know problem doing. I was just wondering if there were more firms out there similar to RBC that don't require you to have a college degree to join.
Quote from Don Bright:
Similar discussions come up every couple of years, let me try to explain our perspective.
New traders make an assumption that a "true prop" shop can make them good traders and only share in their profits (If they have that magic bullet, I haven't seen it, LOL). Well, say you actually do make money, say $10K per month, and you get to keeep $5K or so. After 4 months, you have $20K of Your money gone in lieu of putting up money and keeping all of your profits. Not good for successful traders. If you don't make money, they obciously won't keep you.
Our traders put up $$, but keep all their profits. We do have an interest in helping them stay with the Firm. In our opinion, they have a much better chance of staying with us IF they keep all their profits. Our retention rate is partly based on the individual trader's desire to make a long term business out of trading. Over Half of our Traders have been with us 5 years or longer, showing that this can be a long term career.
Our model does offer training from some of the best traders on the planet, and yes, some of we charge for...and it's well worth it. Our basic class, which is open to the public, is a great springboard for traders who are new to the business. Individual traders will learn in various ways, and take to one or several techniques more than the others. Our ongoing Mentoring etc. has proven to be very valuable, some opting to grow into being a Mentor themselves. Learning never ends, especially in this business. We must all adapt to market conditions.
All that being said, I understand that our business model is not for everyone. And, FWIW, when we have so many traders coming from other Firm's, I think our rates are comparable when everything is considered.
Rollover Day today - ESU9 etc. Trade well!!
Don BTW, Florida Traders check our website - join me for a free dinner.
"Well, say you actually do make money"
Quote from monty21:
No offense, this doesn't make sense for a new trader.
If you trade for a firm that gives out 100% payout, then it doesn't matter if you are profitable. Yes, they can make more commission dollars from you, but considering the high turnover rate of traders it doesn't really matter.
A new trader should look for a firm where HE HAS NO FINANCIAL RISK. For this reason, the payout will be low... could be 50%, but the firm is invested to make you profitable. The firm only makes money if you are profitable. They will do whatever it takes to make you profitable. THAT IS THE BEST SCENARIO. You could have 100% payout, but what does it matter if you loss money? You also can lose your entire initial contribution ($25,000 in Bright's case).
From what I understand, bright charges a fee for a "learning" seminar. That's bullsh!t. Never pay for training. Bright also allows remote traders to newbies.... newbies should only start on a trading desk because that is the best place to learn.A new trader also should not risk $25,000 in capital... as Bright requires. With 100% payout, he doesn't make money from you having a positive P/L. He makes money from you for commissions and other fees.
Well said. agreed 100%.
Consider this scenario: if some one is learning to drive a car, would you give him a benz, rolls royce or a BMW? obvsiously not. You learn to drive in a very old car where u can make mistakes and get into accidents etc. Similarly in trading, most likely a newbie will lose. The professinal traders will take money from newbie. So why would Bright expect a trader to contribute 25K?
So i guess swift is a place to learn. Too bad there are no branches in the U.S.
Quote from monty21:
I'm not knocking his firm, but its not for new traders.
Absolutely not!
I would have respect for them if they presented themselves for what they actually were: a brokerage house offering highly levered accounts for active, experienced day traders. I'm sure their business model centers on their brokerage service as their main profit center because of the 100% payout. Of course, they have every right to do this, but don't lure the beginner.
They advertise for both experienced and beginning trader. This makes me cringe. They are all about having their traders trade high volume and you will hear from them if you don't. My friend was a remote trader and was ridiculed several times by somebody there for trading low share amounts, even though he had explained that he was working on a trading strategy and did not want to risk too much money while it was being refined.
I left because I was personally insulted to the nth degree by a high ranking person there, on something completely unrelated to trading and on something they knew nothing about.