Best prop firm for remote traders

Quote from ColdLogic:

I know this issue has been discussed in the past, but the old threads are somewhat dated by now.

What are the current top choices for remote trading?

My particular situation: I trade ETFs with a self-developed black-box system. Therefore, software and datafeeds are a non-issue for me.

My system averages only 3.5 round-trips per day (typically trade QQQ in lots of 10,000). Will the low trade frequency be a deal-killer for most prop firms?

Commissions, payout, and required capital/licenses seem to be the most important issues to me.

Any and all advice will be appreciated.
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Personally I like Echotrade, Bright would be my second choice (sorry Don). As far as Black Box trading goes even though you have your own, Echo is offering quite a bit of it to its traders also. Check out predatorpro.com. Your share volume will not be an issue with Echotrade.
 
Quote from astocktr8r:


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Personally I like Echotrade, Bright would be my second choice (sorry Don). As far as Black Box trading goes even though you have your own, Echo is offering quite a bit of it to its traders also. Check out predatorpro.com. Your share volume will not be an issue with Echotrade.
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That's a fair answer, and I appreciate hearing a "reason" rather than a "statement." (I may disagree, but at least it's a reason, LOL)...

The sheer volume of orders that our Black Box guys use requires the use of FIX, and considerable capital, which means that we may "out shine" some of the other boys for the more serious, higher volume traders. The Scalper and other programs are designed for our systems as well.

And, to the issue of remote trading volume not being an issue...yes, it is here...one must trade a whole 200K per month for Free (yes, free) monthly fees.

This is why I like to see reasons...for the betterment of the trader and his/her decision making process.

Don
 
Quote from Don Bright:

Trading using a Firm's money for execution and market access beyond routing via the broker is Professional Trading. Retail trading is still too restrictive for most serious traders (I said 'most', don't get defensive).

Don
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I have decided to get a little defensive here if you call it that. I get such a kick out of the Play on Words that these firm owners such as Don Bright love to use to place their services and customers on a pulpit. A person who is broke, has no savings, but can take a 5k credit card loan from his Discover Card and then get leverage at Bright Trading or someother chop shop is given the title "Professional Trader". The guy who has a million dollars in capital (all made from trading) and trades at home for himself is considered a "retail trading guy" awwwwwww. Don I know you used the disclaimer to not get defensive but give me a break with the cheap salesman tactics.
 
Quote from ChartingMarkets:

A person who is broke, has no savings, but can take a 5k credit card loan from his Discover Card and then get leverage at Bright Trading or someother chop shop is given the title "Professional Trader". The guy who has a million dollars in capital (all made from trading) and trades at home for himself is considered a "retail trading guy" awwwwwww.
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I think you're wrong on what you posted about the 5K credit card loan just walking in to a prop shop. First, I think one would need their Series 7 to trade there. Next, you present a far fetched scenario of someone broke, no savings, etc. Last, who cares if a person trading their own money is referred to as a "retail trader"? I'm not sure about you but I don't really care what tag is attached to me as long as I continue to trade succesfully.
 
Quote from doji:

I think you're wrong on what you posted about the 5K credit card loan just walking in to a prop shop. First, I think one would need their Series 7 to trade there. Next, you present a far fetched scenario of someone broke, no savings, etc. Last, who cares if a person trading their own money is referred to as a "retail trader"? I'm not sure about you but I don't really care what tag is attached to me as long as I continue to trade successfully.
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To begin with you can think what you want to as to how much money people who walk in to prop shops have. I will bet you anything that the majority of them are essentially walking in with 5-10k in "thrown" together savings. Secondly, getting a series 7 means squat in my eyes, I have helped people pass that multiple choice P/F idiotic test with 2 weeks of training and most of these people wouldn't know what the Capital Asset Pricing Model is or even how to use double coupons at a supermarket for that matter. Lastly, what I care about when it comes to name tagging is that, its used as a salesman tactic and as a form of imagery for the sole intent to deceive (aka marketing 101). Deception in the form, that the title "pro" bestows upon a person instant success as they plunk down their money and trade at these 21st century Bucket shops that are in the end are only interested in their commissions.
 
Quote from ChartingMarkets:

I have decided to get a little defensive here if you call it that. I get such a kick out of the Play on Words that these firm owners such as Don Bright love to use to place their services and customers on a pulpit. A person who is broke, has no savings, but can take a 5k credit card loan from his Discover Card and then get leverage at Bright Trading or someother chop shop is given the title "Professional Trader". The guy who has a million dollars in capital (all made from trading) and trades at home for himself is considered a "retail trading guy" awwwwwww. Don I know you used the disclaimer to not get defensive but give me a break with the cheap salesman tactics.
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If you had ever heard any of my discussions, seen any of my classes or media interviews....you would know that I go out of my way to make the specific distinction that I mean "Professional vs. Retail" as defined by Regulators, not "Professional vs. Amateur" which may sound derogatory. I applaud and respect those traders who have "made it on their own"...and since the Bright Brothers have done the very same thing, it would make no sense to define ourselves in a negative light.

Here is direct quote from my Powerpoint presentation:
"We are not trying to make a statement regarding “professional vs. amateur” traders. We are aware that many serious traders may still be trading as customers"

We discuss market access (yes, your NYSE orders are routed through your broker, maybe not a big deal for your style of trading). We discuss "use of capital" (again, maybe not a big deal if you have $Million or more, but many people do not and certainly appreciate the help to get there.

I find (not so much anymore) that some people still mistake some of what is said as "marketing" when it is simply education. Many people thought I was "naysaying" on our Radio Show and "raggin" on Mutual Funds years ago...well, they certainly have a different attitude now.

Anyway, before being accused of a marketing post, let me just say again that I applaud your success, and want to do our best to help others along their way.

All the best..

Don

BTW, no "Credit Card Traders" need apply (cute comment though)
And, don't forget that it does take a serious approach to at least go through the licensing process, which has helped us keep out the very types you refer to. I can't say the same for the retail firms who actually allow anyone in, and actually give them a credit card, and don't require licenses.

You are a rare exception to the "retail trader" and if you want to read the Retail Trading Myths, feel free:

http://www.traders.com/Documentation/FEEDbk_docs/Archive/042001/Abstracts_new/Bright/Bright.html

Now, back to my opening trades, have a good day!
 
Quote from ChartingMarkets:

To begin with you can think what you want to as to how much money people who walk in to prop shops have. I will bet you anything that the majority of them are essentially walking in with 5-10k in "thrown" together savings. Lastly, what I care about when it comes to name tagging is that, its used as a salesman tactic and as a form of imagery for the sole intent to deceive (aka marketing 101). Deception in the form, that the title "pro" bestows upon a person instant success as they plunk down their money and trade at these 21st century Bucket shops that are in the end are only interested in their commissions.
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And you can post what you want. First you post about people with no savings, are broke, etc. getting $$$ from a card advance. Now you state people in fact scrape together savings. Which is it? Last, if you don't know that there is a differentiation between "retail" traders and those at prop shops I suggest you educate yourself a bit more. If you don't understand something that basic I can only wonder how you (apparently) helped people pass their Series 7. In any event, flame away if you feel the need to ... it's time for me to go trade my "retail" account. I suppose in your eyes that makes me "less" than a prop trader, even after 8 years.
 
Quote from Don Bright:
...I go out of my way to make the specific distinction that I mean "Professional vs. Retail" as defined by Regulators, not "Professional vs. Amateur" which may sound derogatory...


The problem here, and the reason that people take offense (regardless of disclaimers), is the English language. "Professional trader" means (to most people) "one whose profession is trading". That should describe anyone who spends the majority of their time trading, and relies on it for the majority of their income. This includes many successful, sufficiently capitalized retail traders (like myself) who have no need to give up a piece of their action (through <100% payout or increased commissions).

IMO, "proprietary trader" is a more accurate and better understood description for those who trade OPM.

SEC and exchange regs are full of confusing and arcane terminology and concepts (just read the bullet interpretation - oy!). That doesn't mean we have to use them, when we have better tools (i.e. real-world-speak) at our disposal :-)
 
Senior Member

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 435


12-20-03 01:03 AM alanm wrote:

Quote from Don Bright:
...I go out of my way to make the specific distinction that I mean "Professional vs. Retail" as defined by Regulators,
...
More...


IMO, "proprietary trader" is a more accurate and better understood description for those who trade OPM.

SEC and exchange regs are full of confusing and arcane terminology and concepts (just read the bullet interpretation - oy!). That doesn't mean we have to use them, when we have better tools (i.e. real-world-speak) at our disposal :-)
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I guess if there are "Retail Traders" there are
"Wholesale Traders" too :)


I notice that S&C magazine seems to use the term
"Private Trader" for someone who trades full-time their
own money.
 
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