I myself have been remote trading equities for the past 2 months after 9 years trading corporate bonds in a regional dealer environment. I left on my own, but really business had been dead for well over a year. My suggestion for new people wanting to get involved in some trading capacity would be to look outside the traditional financial institutions and explore oil/energy trading with the oil and power companies. I don't know what it pays to start but it will give you exposure to cash and derivitave markets as well as P&L responsibilities later on. Good Luck!
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Best place to position myself in this industry
- Thread starter millydog
- Start date
investment banks work this way. they hire naive college grads from top school to work 80-100 hour weeks doing intensive secretary style work for 2 year contract. most kids revel in the fact they are working for a big name bank and wear a suit. once contract is finished, most are out of a job. the brilliant top % or family connection stay on.
Quote from sle:
Not true at all - every bank I know is hiring, Goldman especially. Smart people are in demand, dumb and obsolete people are getting fired. That's true in general, not only on Wall Street. And in general, Goldman has less to offer - their packages (esp. for juniors) are skewed to the lower side because of the name factor.
With a degree in math/finance, assuming that the guy is smart, he can get a decent job around derivatives. In a three-four years he'd be making his coveted 300+K. If he proves himself, he would be able to move to a trading spot (a few years away, if ever, of course). As a derivatives trader he can be bringing home anywhere from 300+ to a few MB.
This would be a riskless trade vs. joining a "prop" firm with up-front deposit (as opposed to a real prop firm where you get to trade OPM and have a salary).
Quote from Lights:
investment banks work this way. they hire naive college grads from top school to work 80-100 hour weeks doing intensive secretary style work for 2 year contract. most kids revel in the fact they are working for a big name bank and wear a suit. once contract is finished, most are out of a job. the brilliant top % or family connection stay on.
That has been my experience as well...you just put it into terms that are a bit more harsh than I like to post on the site...but truth nonetheless.
Don
Yeah
I agree with the whole investment bank thing. No one will hire me because I'M to old at the age of 33 and quite frankely they know I'm not going to eat shit at my age and that is the reason why. Thats fine, because I had a couple offers already and they can F-- off. I don't need them ,they need me. I have other opurtunities waiting and I am not going to be some slave in a place I know I'll get layed off in in 2 years. In response to the post about the cost of good Sherpa guides. It depends upon what you want to do. Not all are good but for 1,600 U.S dollars I hired 3 of them incliuding 2 porters for 1 month. My head guide was one of the best , he had at least 5 8,000 meter peaks under his belt including 28k on Everst. I am going back in the spring to climb CHO OYO if anyone is interested in teaming up on an expedition. This is a big one and is going to cost 10K just for the peak permit, but I can bring maybee 2 people with me if they split the cost with me.
I agree with the whole investment bank thing. No one will hire me because I'M to old at the age of 33 and quite frankely they know I'm not going to eat shit at my age and that is the reason why. Thats fine, because I had a couple offers already and they can F-- off. I don't need them ,they need me. I have other opurtunities waiting and I am not going to be some slave in a place I know I'll get layed off in in 2 years. In response to the post about the cost of good Sherpa guides. It depends upon what you want to do. Not all are good but for 1,600 U.S dollars I hired 3 of them incliuding 2 porters for 1 month. My head guide was one of the best , he had at least 5 8,000 meter peaks under his belt including 28k on Everst. I am going back in the spring to climb CHO OYO if anyone is interested in teaming up on an expedition. This is a big one and is going to cost 10K just for the peak permit, but I can bring maybee 2 people with me if they split the cost with me.
Great Thanks for the response.
I would love to go, but I don't think I'm ready for something that big just yet. I'm currently living in BC and most of my expeditions are limited to the coastal mountains.
Hopefully in the future I can explore a little more.
ozzy
I would love to go, but I don't think I'm ready for something that big just yet. I'm currently living in BC and most of my expeditions are limited to the coastal mountains.
Hopefully in the future I can explore a little more.
ozzy
Quote from millydog:
Yeah
I agree with the whole investment bank thing. No one will hire me because I'M to old at the age of 33 and quite frankely they know I'm not going to eat shit at my age and that is the reason why. Thats fine, because I had a couple offers already and they can F-- off. I don't need them ,they need me. I have other opurtunities waiting and I am not going to be some slave in a place I know I'll get layed off in in 2 years. In response to the post about the cost of good Sherpa guides. It depends upon what you want to do. Not all are good but for 1,600 U.S dollars I hired 3 of them incliuding 2 porters for 1 month. My head guide was one of the best , he had at least 5 8,000 meter peaks under his belt including 28k on Everst. I am going back in the spring to climb CHO OYO if anyone is interested in teaming up on an expedition. This is a big one and is going to cost 10K just for the peak permit, but I can bring maybee 2 people with me if they split the cost with me.
09-26-05 09:29 PM
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Quote from riskarb:
Mail room cuts?
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No, but if they were "mail room cuts" they would probably do better....salaried "traders" tend to be like Auto dealership mechanics....they're great in that environment, but take away all the "stuff" and see how creative they are....it's been a problem in the past. That being said, a good trader (not an order placer) will do well in whatever they choose to do.
All the best,
Don
__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
http://www.stocktrading.com
Good point Don
every job I ever had you either could play or you couldn't. Smart or stupid, motivated or lazy, hapenning or not. We are surronded with mediocracy and sub-par people. Yeah I was an auto mechanic too , back in the day, as well as half a dozen other jobs, but I could always get the job done , and get it done better than anyone I ever worked with. Trading, although different is a challenge I welcome, and one I know I can sucseed in if given a chance.
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Quote from riskarb:
Mail room cuts?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, but if they were "mail room cuts" they would probably do better....salaried "traders" tend to be like Auto dealership mechanics....they're great in that environment, but take away all the "stuff" and see how creative they are....it's been a problem in the past. That being said, a good trader (not an order placer) will do well in whatever they choose to do.
All the best,
Don
__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
http://www.stocktrading.com
Good point Don
every job I ever had you either could play or you couldn't. Smart or stupid, motivated or lazy, hapenning or not. We are surronded with mediocracy and sub-par people. Yeah I was an auto mechanic too , back in the day, as well as half a dozen other jobs, but I could always get the job done , and get it done better than anyone I ever worked with. Trading, although different is a challenge I welcome, and one I know I can sucseed in if given a chance.
Great Thanks for the response.
I would love to go, but I don't think I'm ready for something that big just yet. I'm currently living in BC and most of my expeditions are limited to the coastal mountains.
Hopefully in the future I can explore a little more.
ozzy
Yes you can if you are in awsome shape.
It's all endurance above 20K. Technical climbing plays it's part yes, but some of the big ones are not that technical. Especially with all the routes being fixed now a days. Follow the man in front of you. How pathetic it's come, even on top of the world it's commersilised.I am in better shape than anyone else on that mountain and that's my edge at 27,00 ft as far as I'm conserned. It's a level playing field now a days beyond a certain level of experience. We all die just as easily.
I would love to go, but I don't think I'm ready for something that big just yet. I'm currently living in BC and most of my expeditions are limited to the coastal mountains.
Hopefully in the future I can explore a little more.
ozzy
Yes you can if you are in awsome shape.
It's all endurance above 20K. Technical climbing plays it's part yes, but some of the big ones are not that technical. Especially with all the routes being fixed now a days. Follow the man in front of you. How pathetic it's come, even on top of the world it's commersilised.I am in better shape than anyone else on that mountain and that's my edge at 27,00 ft as far as I'm conserned. It's a level playing field now a days beyond a certain level of experience. We all die just as easily.
how do I get the deal in writing. I interviewed at one prop shop and said that and they looked at me funny.And blew me off and just gave me the general paperwork. Should I ask my lawyer or is there some standard way many of you guys have done this before. My lawyer is going to charge a lot, but man is he a pit bull.
Yes, your payout scales should be written down. The general paperwork should include the standard account paper works, and a standard agreement between you and the prop firm LLC regarding, capital contribution, profit sharing, and commission rates, plus any desk / monthly charges.
The agreement is fairly short, about a page or two, usually with volume scales and profit sharing scales.
I haven't seen one of those for a couple of years, so maybe someone at a prop firm now can fill in the details.
The agreement is fairly short, about a page or two, usually with volume scales and profit sharing scales.
I haven't seen one of those for a couple of years, so maybe someone at a prop firm now can fill in the details.
Quote from millydog:
how do I get the deal in writing. I interviewed at one prop shop and said that and they looked at me funny.And blew me off and just gave me the general paperwork. Should I ask my lawyer or is there some standard way many of you guys have done this before. My lawyer is going to charge a lot, but man is he a pit bull.