Best IB Algo for very illiquid stocks?

[tonyf]

@Humble Investor :

I have seen your contribution to a similar post back in Jan 2019: https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/ibs-csfb-crossfinder-vs-foxriver-dark-attack.328645/page-2

I wonder if you have any further advice from your first hand experience dealing with illiquid securities?

 

[henry76]

Moc if you can hold a while.

 

[Humble Investor]

@Humble Investor :

I have seen your contribution to a similar post back in Jan 2019: https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/ibs-csfb-crossfinder-vs-foxriver-dark-attack.328645/page-2

I wonder if you have any further advice from your first hand experience dealing with illiquid securities?

I use combination of IB's DARK ONLY, IEX, Crossfinder, and Sniper. Foxriver is not good!

 

[Robert Morse]

Why is FoxRiver not good? I have heard very good things about them.

 

[Humble Investor]

Why is FoxRiver not good? I have heard very good things about them.

I get faster fills with Crossfinder. I have tested Fox river dark attack and Crossfinder number of times. Crossfinder always fills first. I use crossfinder to access dark pools and IB's smart router and IEX for DMA.

 

[Robert Morse]

Interesting. We offer both but on different software. Is faster always better when it comes to algos or is less market impact and better end pricing the goal on these?

I get faster fills with Crossfinder. I have tested Fox river dark attack and Crossfinder number of times. Crossfinder always fills first. I use crossfinder to access dark pools and IB's smart router and IEX for DMA.

 

[tonyf]

I use combination of IB's DARK ONLY, IEX, Crossfinder, and Sniper. Foxriver is not good!

Thanks for that. A few questions if I may:

1) Are your orders routed to the main exchanges (DMA) when using IB's DARK ONLY?
I was under the impression that this setting will exclude exchanges to the benefit of dark pools.

2) Why do you focus exclusively on IEX and not ISLAND, NYSE, NASDAQ...I understand that IEX captures only 3% of the flow.

3) I am not familiar with Crossfinder, and Sniper. Are your orders visible or hidden with those and where are they routed? Do they add much to your all-in trade cost?

4) I am assuming that you are putting multiple orders for the same security at the same price using 10, 2) and 3) above. Does it ever happen that all 3 orders are lifted in the same time or do you use O-C-As to avoid that?

5) Do you have any experience with IB's MaxFill setting? I can't find much documentation regarding that online.

 

[Humble Investor]

Interesting. We offer both but on different software. Is faster always better when it comes to algos or is less market impact and better end pricing the goal on these?

Not sure to be honest but I have executed 10k shares block on a 100k ADV volume stock with little impact while the FoxRiver algo just sits there doing nothing. I always use multiple algos at the same time and have found crossfinder to be better.

 

[Humble Investor]

Thanks for that. A few questions if I may:

1) Are your orders routed to the main exchanges (DMA) when using IB's DARK ONLY?
I was under the impression that this setting will exclude exchanges to the benefit of dark pools.

2) Why do you focus exclusively on IEX and not ISLAND, NYSE, NASDAQ...I understand that IEX captures only 3% of the flow.

3) I am not familiar with Crossfinder, and Sniper. Are your orders visible or hidden with those and where are they routed? Do they add much to your all-in trade cost?

4) I am assuming that you are putting multiple orders for the same security at the same price using 10, 2) and 3) above. Does it ever happen that all 3 orders are lifted in the same time or do you use O-C-As to avoid that?

5) Do you have any experience with IB's MaxFill setting? I can't find much documentation regarding that online.

1. IB's DARK ONLY routes to 8 dark pools only.
2. IEX is good for taking all available liquidity, it captures high % of available liquidity on exchanges. HFTs can't react.
3. They are all hidden, that's why I like them. In illiquid stocks, dark pools are the way to go.
4. I use multiple algos all at the same time. It's a risk I'm willing to take in illiquid stocks.
5. I don't use Maxfill.

In summary, you need to experiment with these stuff, sometimes dark pools are good, sometimes exchanges. There is no one fits all approach.

 

[tonyf]

1. IB's DARK ONLY routes to 8 dark pools only.
2. IEX is good for taking all available liquidity, it captures high % of available liquidity on exchanges. HFTs can't react.
3. They are all hidden, that's why I like them. In illiquid stocks, dark pools are the way to go.
4. I use multiple algos all at the same time. It's a risk I'm willing to take in illiquid stocks.
5. I don't use Maxfill.

In summary, you need to experiment with these stuff, sometimes dark pools are good, sometimes exchanges. There is no one fits all approach.

Thanks again. I have started experimenting.

Does the IB Smart Router route to dark pools and exchanges? I am still confused about the DARK ONLY setting and why exclude primary exchanges besides IEX?

And what do you think of IB's Dark Ice?