Best health care reform article I've read to date.

Quote from maninjapan:

Guys, please excuse my ignorance, Im not american and cant say I have too much of an understanding of the US healthcare situation, but why are so many Americans against a nationalized healthcare system. America currently have some of the highest (if not the highest) healthcare costs in the world, yet is the only advanced nation without a public healthcare system. Our system in Australia is far from perfect, but everyone gets care and you pay based on your income. People who want better cover take private insurance. I mean there must be a good reason why so many people are against it, I just cant see it. Any enlightenment on the subject would be much appreciated.

The U.S. is a nation of contradictions.
Americans are roughly split on the issue. About 50% of us do not what the government to run much of anything as "the government is bound to fuck it up." Curiously, we "bound to fuck it up" sorts point to the military as being the "best in the world," and not at all socialistic. While we complain of high taxes, we don't seem to care that the government spends more on the military than all other nations combined. Spending tax dollars on health care, however, is objectionable to us and smacks of dreaded socialism.

The other 50% of us would like to see some sort of government run health plan and we tend to think of government stuff as free, because this is about the fraction of we Americans that pay little or no income tax.

Only a relatively small fraction, and getting smaller, of the US population is well educated and reads widely on the issues. Many of us spend our leisure time watching reality shows on TV, or similar. When we come to the congressional or educational channels we quickly flip past to get to cage wrestling, NASCAR, the latest child rape case, or perhaps a nice video game involving dragons and such. Increasingly, we spend our time on You Tube, Face Book, or Twittering.

We Americans live in a culture where only about half the population votes and is politically active to any significant extent. We are driven by advertising and media hype bought and paid for by, shall we say, not disinterested parties, but that doesn't bother us because we like to shop at the mall. It probably won't come as a surprise to you, therefore, that opinions of those with the most money usually, but not always, win out. Sometimes these opinions don't make much sense to those of us who approach issues from the viewpoint of how society can be best served, but they are genius to those who consider mainly how much money could be made.

Up here, on our lofty perch near the top of the globe where we can keep our eye on the questionable activities of nations beneath us -- socialist nations, such as Australia for example-- we look askance at nations that fail to recognize that a superior society requires money, power, and good looks. We Americans understand this, and we have wisely created our own version of a "Royal" family, or families as the case may be, out of those with money, power, and dashing good looks. As with any true Royal, a brain is optional. These modern day Royals have more than substituted for the ones we threw out in 18th Century.

We will ask the "Royals" how to fix health care. If they are hopelessly divided, then surely we will have the good sense to take the issue to Oprah for final resolution.
 
Quote from Cache Landing:

...The general populace also considers the private sector more capable than the g-ment at running a business...
And for very good reason.
 
A non-profit govt. operated and stringently regulated medical industry ( with public hangings for fraudsters ) is the only solution.

Today vampire capitalists can not be trusted to do the right thing.
 
it appears "many" are against but in reality it is about 20 percent who are against.

Keep in mind these are the same 20% who think the earth is 6000 years old. Saddam was behind 9/11 and Bush Jr talked with God.

And if you look closely at these 20%. You'll discover most of these nut cases are predominantly old white people who are on medicare ( a govt. program)

You have to understand these people get their news from only one source. Fox Tv. And Fox Tv is nothing but a propaganda outlet for the Republican crooked elite.


These crooks are not against health care reform. They're simply against anything decent or moral. The republican elite are the foot soldiers of the vampire capitalists pissed they got kicked out of power.








Quote from maninjapan:

Guys, please excuse my ignorance, Im not american and cant say I have too much of an understanding of the US healthcare situation, but why are so many Americans against a nationalized healthcare system. America currently have some of the highest (if not the highest) healthcare costs in the world, yet is the only advanced nation without a public healthcare system. Our system in Australia is far from perfect, but everyone gets care and you pay based on your income. People who want better cover take private insurance. I mean there must be a good reason why so many people are against it, I just cant see it. Any enlightenment on the subject would be much appreciated.
 
Quote from fkbsuhites:

A non-profit govt. operated and stringently regulated medical industry ( with public hangings for fraudsters ) is the only solution.

Today vampire capitalists can not be trusted to do the right thing.

The health industry in US is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the country. We need to open the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition to be able to buy insurance from other states and bring more competition.

There's a reason why the 3 out of 4 most regulated industries in the US are in bankrupt today. (banking and insurance are two of them) and you said we need more of that "medicine"?. Take a look at medicare and medicaid.

Government and politicians are the mos inefficient and corrupt segment in any society in the world, you want ot put your health on those hand?.. We need a reform, but a market oriented efficient one.

Brother, No ofense, but you sound like perez hilton (young, marxist, gay, naive).
 
Quote from burn8:

People keep saying what we currently have is a "free market" system.

That's just goofy.

-burn8

Dang. Spot on, it's not free market. What we have with healthcare is already socialism, more or less, with the usual costs of a system that was thought up by dolts.

I wander into a poison ivy patch and might as well stop by the MD office, shell out me $20 copay, pick up some predisone and be cured in a few days. No worries. But if it cost me $50 for the MD and another $50 for the drugs - I'd STF away from a lot of things that might be poison ivy, might not.

Anybody with a brain knows that unless the folks who are right there on the front lines are choosing care based on a variety of things that also includes cost, then the price of healthcare is only going to go up.

Duh.

And anybody else who thinks that government mandates and bureaucratic oversight will do better than individual choice is a moron. Not even counting the inevitable corruption.

Duh II.

The real solution is to insure for catastrophic occurrences, like we do for cars. Maybe some sort of long term payment for pricey things llike child birth. But we cannot hold down costs without free market actions. Anybody that tells you otherwise is a liar.

Socialism does not lower prices.

Duh III.
 
Quote from piezoe:

The U.S. is a nation of contradictions.
Americans are roughly split on the issue. About 50% of us do not what the government to run much of anything as "the government is bound to fuck it up." Curiously, we "bound to fuck it up" sorts point to the military as being the "best in the world," and not at all socialistic. While we complain of high taxes, we don't seem to care that the government spends more on the military than all other nations combined. Spending tax dollars on health care, however, is objectionable to us and smacks of dreaded socialism.

The other 50% of us would like to see some sort of government run health plan and we tend to think of government stuff as free, because this is about the fraction of we Americans that pay little or no income tax.

Only a relatively small fraction, and getting smaller, of the US population is well educated and reads widely on the issues. Many of us spend our leisure time watching reality shows on TV, or similar. When we come to the congressional or educational channels we quickly flip past to get to cage wrestling, NASCAR, the latest child rape case, or perhaps a nice video game involving dragons and such. Increasingly, we spend our time on You Tube, Face Book, or Twittering.

We Americans live in a culture where only about half the population votes and is politically active to any significant extent. We are driven by advertising and media hype bought and paid for by, shall we say, not disinterested parties, but that doesn't bother us because we like to shop at the mall. It probably won't come as a surprise to you, therefore, that opinions of those with the most money usually, but not always, win out. Sometimes these opinions don't make much sense to those of us who approach issues from the viewpoint of how society can be best served, but they are genius to those who consider mainly how much money could be made.

Up here, on our lofty perch near the top of the globe where we can keep our eye on the questionable activities of nations beneath us -- socialist nations, such as Australia for example-- we look askance at nations that fail to recognize that a superior society requires money, power, and good looks. We Americans understand this, and we have wisely created our own version of a "Royal" family, or families as the case may be, out of those with money, power, and dashing good looks. As with any true Royal, a brain is optional. These modern day Royals have more than substituted for the ones we threw out in 18th Century.

We will ask the "Royals" how to fix health care. If they are hopelessly divided, then surely we will have the good sense to take the issue to Oprah for final resolution.

That was awesome. Took the words right out of my mouth. Well not the exact words. Mine would have incuded a lot more (or some) expletives.
 
Quote from piezoe:

It would be a very good idea for consumers to pay a greater fraction of their cost directly so that they would be acutely aware of costs and might cut down on unnecessary trips to the doctor and become much more interested in following through on billing errors, etc. I don't see, however, how this proposal, which is attractive none the less, would result in "..a very healthy competition in the industry," and I don't see how it would do anything dramatic for costs, which is where the real problem lies.

The reason U.S. medicine does not operate in a price competitive environment has very little to do with the payment mechanism.

The reason there is no competition is because American Medicine operates as a government sanctioned, via the FDA, Cartel in which access is very tightly controlled, and that Cartel is selling something you desperately need: your health! When you break your leg are you going to say: "No thank you, the cost is too much." I think not!

Peripheral measures such as the one proposed are nice and perhaps a very good idea, but until the power of the Cartel is broken there will not be free price competition, and prices will remain out of line with the rest of the world.

Medicine will have to be deregulated to some extent if prices are to come down. This may be an imperfect solution, but until a perfect one comes along it would be far better than what we have now -- a system that can easily bankrupt someone even with insurance! In fact, the truly poor may be better off with regard to paying for medical services than a lower middle class family with insurance. I ask you, what kind of a "system" is that?!

I also would ask why the non-profit Blues (Blue Cross-Blue Shield) are not enthusiastic about a proposed government insurance option paid for by premiums (Not tax dollars). If the Blues are so efficient, and they don't even have to make a profit, why should they be worried by premium-supported, alternative insurance administered by the government --"a government that can never run anything half so efficient as private enterprise." (Could it be that the board will miss their sets of alligator luggage at Christmas time should they lose customers to the government plan?) :D

Yes, the Cartel must be broken if real progress on costs is to be made.

You have some good points, but I think you underestimate the ability of americans to shop around for a better price.

Healthy competition always reduces cost to equilibrium, with one caveat. Equilibrium is only reached when the consumer is making an informed decision. Call up a few hospitals right now and ask how much three x-rays and an MRI cost. IN all likelihood, most of them won't be able to give you a price. The other certainty is that the price will be different if you tell them that you don't have insurance.

I just got a bill from the dentist. There was confusion on my insurance information. I got a bill for $600 as they billed me with no insurance. I corrected the insurance info and I subsequently got a bill for $1200, of which I was responsible for $400.

I'm not suggesting that people will say no thanks to fixing a broken arm. I'm just saying that they will start shopping around. If they were required to withdraw from an HSA or take out credit against future payments, they would start to ask which services aren't really necessary. Also, the nonsense from the above situation wouldn't exist.
 
Quote from Cache Landing:

You have some good points, but I think you underestimate the ability of americans to shop around for a better price.


to think that there can be competition in medicince is naive. much of health care is done on an emergency basis. you have a heart attack and you are shipped to the nearest hospital. what are you going to do? are you going to say wait i want to go to this other hospital 50 miles away because they are cheaper. or your wife or child gets cancer. are you going to seek out the cheapest care or the best? get real.
 
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