Best European Countries to Trade from

This is the translation (more or less) from a part of article 3.2 from the judgement (not the conclusions) from the Supreme Court in The Netherlands about the 1,2% taxlevel in trading:
The Court has concluded that trading options did not generate any income to the accused. The Court concluded that the accused wasn't able to proof any plausibility that he, by trading for his own account and risk in options, had a more than purely speculative chance to make money.

So the next questions are important to me:
  1. Suppose I would really make a lot of money. What will the revenue officer (= american IRS) do. Will he tell me: you made 1.000.000 euro profit so you pay 12.000 euro tax according to the judgement of the Supreme Court.
  2. Or will he say: The Supreme Court did say that the accused did not proof to be able to have a more than speculative chance to make money. So it was no income. But you made 1.000.000 euro profits which proofs that your profit is bigger than the speculative chance to make money. You had more than 75% profitable trades. So you proofed that you have income and I will tax you at 52% according the arguments of the Supreme Court.
If you have a more than a purely speculative chance to make money it is income. So box1 at 52%.
What will happen? They will tax at 52% because revenue officers have to tax as much as possible.
But according to some experts there is no problem. They are convinced you will be taxed at 1,2%. Who wants to try this out?

The government wanted absolutely to prevent that all investors would be able to deduct their losses. This could cost the government huge amounts of money. So they made a judgement accordingly. They left enough space for interpretation so they could use it in both ways. This happens in every country. In Belgium there is no capital gain tax. But if you do not invest like a good housefather your profits will be taxed as income. But they don't give a definition of a good housefather. So they have their hands free. Peanuts are not taxed, but real profits are.
 
i am nobody said:
Typically Dutch; big mouth till people say: show me the money.
Then they disappear. You cannot guarantee this 1,2% tax level that's all.
We see now that you cannot deliver what you say.
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Dude, you just don't get it do you? The one who failed to deliver was you, by not answering my question why your tax lawyer couldn't guarantee you box 3. That was the end of the discussion for me.
You come across as a very arrogant little prick, and a racist one to boot. Go see a shrink, you've got some serious personality disorder.
 
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Another post by this assclown nobody:

"If you speak about this amount of money you surely have no problem to pay an expert for expert advice. But the fact that you ask it here means that you dream that one day you will make this kind of money. Pay an expert, it will cost you maybe a few thousand dollars, so less than one day average profit, and certainly less than the fines you can get from tax people because of a bad construction. What kind of licence do I need to fly a personal jet? Because if ever I make money I want to buy one. Maybe I can afford to have a private pilot..... :confused:"

A few thousand bucks for tax advice? Any serious tax lawyer hardly picks up a pen for that.:rolleyes: The image of an attention-whoring internet-troll, living in the basement of his mother, comes to mind.
 
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chill out, nobody cares about your little fight.

with regards to the netherlands, i don't agree the Supreme Court ruling gives 100% certainty to traders for being taxed at 1,2% on total assets. a lot of the definitions used (i speak & understand dutch as well) can be interpreted in different ways. "Voorkennis" doesn't necessarily equal insider trading. also, the definition of someone not being able to influence the outcome is vague; you could argue that while speculative trading would be taxed in Box 3, pure (or not so pure) arbitrage or hedging wouldn't be. If you read the entire verdict different sources contradict eachother; somewhere else "daghandel" (daytrading) is explicitly defined as a "bedrijfshandeling", but again, what's the exact definition.

anyway, i agree with i am nobody's advisors; if he/she wants 100% certainty of being taxed in Box 3, while likely, it's not guaranteed. Especially without any details about his/her way of trading. If he/she really is making millions a year (who knows), he/she would be sticking out in a big way. Imo 99% of traders in the Netherlands (even those without any other full time employment) have a 99% chance of just being taxed at the 1,2% level on total assets though, sometimes in life you can't get a full guarantee for something.
 
well that depends. an LLC in its basic form pays 20-25% corporate tax, plus dividend tax if you want to take the money out of the company. so not so attractive for trading.
the netherlands accomodates quite a few special investment vehicles/entities though, either transparent or non-transparent, that are for example exempt (or otherwise 0%-scale) for paying corporate tax. but these have demands, conditions, disadvantages (in some cases no access to tax treaties for example), way too much to explain here and what's relevant is very much dependant on what you're trying to do. plenty of people you can hire for 300 euro an hour who will tell you all about it :)
 
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bjw said:
well that depends. an LLC in its basic form pays 20-25% corporate tax, plus dividend tax if you want to take the money out of the company. so not so attractive for trading.
the netherlands accomodates quite a few special investment vehicles/entities though, either transparent or non-transparent, that are for example exempt (or otherwise 0%-scale) for paying corporate tax. but these have demands, conditions, disadvantages (in some cases no access to tax treaties for example), way too much to explain here and what's relevant is very much dependant on what you're trying to do. plenty of people you can hire for 300 euro an hour who will tell you all about it :)
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Hi bjw,

I work every now and then with the big four ( Deloitte, KPMG, PWC, Ernst&Young). I have documents from them where they confirm that it is impossible to have 100% certainty about the 1,2% taxation. One of them wrote me this:"Het is inderdaad zo dat er in 2011 een uitspraak van de Hoge Raad is gedaan op grond waarvan box 3 van toepassing werd bij handel op termijnmarkten/speculatieve transacties. Dit kan in specifieke situaties en afhankelijk van de feiten echter anders uitpakken. Om dit goed te kunnen beoordelen hebben wij uiteraard meer informatie van u nodig. "
It is clear that Ditch is the big expert as Deloitte, KPMG, PWC and Ernst&Young are amateurs who know nothing. They have offices all over the world with specialists in a lot of different areas. They also represent the biggest companies in the world in fiscal matters. But all these companies are idiots. The only real smart man and expert in the area is Ditch. Your indication of 300 euro an hour is much more close to reality then the thousands of euros that Ditch pays. I could ask advice from Ditch, but he is too expensive for me. I mean his tariff is not too expensive, but what it will cost me in taxes if I follow his advice.
 
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