Best Country for Trading (Tax efficiency)

[dw31583]

uh... when did mainland China and UAE local banks started applying automatic information exchange ?

Must have been the same day Dubai authorities started flogging westerners in public squares for bringing an escort home...

UAE and China from 2018: http://www.oecd.org/tax/transparency/AEOI-commitments.pdf

To be honest I kinda like you but 90% of the time you're just too far from the reality. Both China and the UAE has openly stated that they will automatically exchange informations. Btw it was expected as both have signed up for the AEOI. Even the US will join the AEOI after the election. Just saying so hopefully you won't get surprised.

 

[luisHK]

At least you should follow the news but hey, you're right at least about one thing. I'm paranoid.

Scroll back a few pages and check the conversations. Everyone said that I'm not normal because AEOI won't happen. China won't share information, UAE won't share info, Panama won't share info. I said they will.

The way you wrote the above it seems you have been already proven right. We'll see in 2018. I'm not holding my breath.
I'm more than a bit surprised (among other funny stuff you posted, like the one about life in Dubai) you think your set up wouldn't work tax free in Malaysia btw, you think authorities there will check all your offshore companies to see where the business is conducted and try to tax you on that ?
Just set up a different corporation with (far) less revenue, non web based if you are afraid they challenge its income because you use the computer at home, and use it to as a proof of income.
Better choice btw, the one I'd opt for now probably if I was single is Philipinnes, everybody speaks english, it's a top place to get laid about which you seem to care much (not that it's bad in the West, but it's better there than in Malaysia, and you can stay in first world comfort as long as you stay in Global city or the new casinos - the rest of Manila is much of a shithole afaik.
Residence requirements are even lower than in Malaysia and taxation similar.
But Dubai is a good choice, more interesting, although I feel your plan to move country every month is unrealisitc.

 

[Daal]

At least you should follow the news but hey, you're right at least about one thing. I'm paranoid.

Scroll back a few pages and check the conversations. Everyone said that I'm not normal because AEOI won't happen. China won't share information, UAE won't share info, Panama won't share info. I said they will.

The news proved you even more wrong. The Panama paper thing exposed a lot of brazilians with panama structures. In many of the articles lawyers were consulted, they made pretty clear the Brazilian laws do not require disclosure of corporate bank accounts, only the ownership stake on the company.
And the idea that tax authorities will go after tourists is just beyond ridiculous. In most countries just taking take of the top 5% of incomes already take most of their time/resources. Tourists are likely literally the last group that would want to spend resources on. Specially given that it would pretty sketchy that their claim would be lawful

 

[dw31583]

The way you wrote the above it seems you have been already proven right. We'll see in 2018. I'm not holding my breath.
I'm more than a bit surprised (among other funny stuff you posted, like the one about life in Dubai) you think your set up wouldn't work tax free in Malaysia btw, you think authorities there will check all your offshore companies to see where the business is conducted and try to tax you on that ?
Just set up a different corporation with (far) less revenue, non web based if you are afraid they challenge its income because you use the computer at home, and use it to as a proof of income.
Better choice btw, the one I'd opt for now probably if I was single is Philipinnes, everybody speaks english, it's a top place to get laid about which you seem to care much (not that it's bad in the West, but it's better there than in Malaysia, and you can stay in first world comfort as long as you stay in Global city or the new casinos - the rest of Manila is much of a shithole afaik.
Residence requirements are even lower than in Malaysia and taxation similar.
But Dubai is a good choice, more interesting, although I feel your plan to move country every month is unrealisitc.

Indeed, I'm a bit worried because if something goes wrong then it can be really painful. Authorities have the power to question all your moves. I never said that you're wrong and that each and every offshore company held by residents is being checked. All I'm saying is it will get a bit different with the AEOI.

Imagine that you have an offshore company with millions on the bank accounts and you reside in Malaysia. After 2018 they'll have your business bank account details and they can easily filter the larger businesses so they can do random checks on larger companies. The average Joe with $50k or $200k won't get checked but someone with $1 million or $10 million on the accounts is more likely to get questioned.

AEOI is likely to change the way the tax authorities do their "random" checks especially in territorial tax countries like Malaysia, HK, SG, etc. because they will have your bank account details.

The thing is I have never heard about any tax authority which could claim millions in back taxes plus penalties and interest but doesn't do so. It's just not logical.

I'm certainly paranoid because if AEOI happens the way it is expected to happen by the industry experts then many things are going to change.

Although because of personal reasons, I hope that you'll be right and I'll be wrong!

 

[marsman]

And there is one more alternative: life at sea, ie. living on an ocean liner...

 

[dw31583]

The news proved you even more wrong. The Panama paper thing exposed a lot of brazilians with panama structures. In many of the articles lawyers were consulted, they made pretty clear the Brazilian laws do not require disclosure of corporate bank accounts, only the ownership stake on the company.
And the idea that tax authorities will go after tourists is just beyond ridiculous. In most countries just taking take of the top 5% of incomes already take most of their time/resources. Tourists are likely literally the last group that would want to spend resources on. Specially given that it would pretty sketchy that their claim would be lawful

Quick Google search proves you wrong: http://www.internationaltaxreview.c...-New-regulations-for-Brazilian-CFC-rules.html

Btw if you could avoid corporate taxes altogether by incorporating in a foreign country then there would be zero companies in Brazil. None, 0.

Quote from Deloitte:

Controlled foreign companies – Profits earned by CFCs and certain foreign affiliates (noncontrolled subsidiaries) of Brazilian entities are included in the base for calculating the IRPJ and CSLL liability of the Brazilian controlling or parent company.

Provided certain requirements are met, Brazilian taxpayers have the option to make an irrevocable election (on a calendar year basis) to consolidate the profits and losses of CFCs until 2017 and to carry forward losses incurred by CFCs for five years. Until calendar year 2022, a Brazilian controlling entity in certain business sectors may utilize a 9% presumed credit to offset the income tax related to CFC profits included in its taxable income.

 

[Daal]

Quick Google search proves you wrong: http://www.internationaltaxreview.c...-New-regulations-for-Brazilian-CFC-rules.html

Btw if you could avoid corporate taxes altogether by incorporating in a foreign country then there would be zero companies in Brazil. None, 0.

Quote from Deloitte:

Controlled foreign companies – Profits earned by CFCs and certain foreign affiliates (noncontrolled subsidiaries) of Brazilian entities are included in the base for calculating the IRPJ and CSLL liability of the Brazilian controlling or parent company.

Provided certain requirements are met, Brazilian taxpayers have the option to make an irrevocable election (on a calendar year basis) to consolidate the profits and losses of CFCs until 2017 and to carry forward losses incurred by CFCs for five years. Until calendar year 2022, a Brazilian controlling entity in certain business sectors may utilize a 9% presumed credit to offset the income tax related to CFC profits included in its taxable income.

you are using the same flawled argument that i debunked several times. this only applies to brazilian companies, not people. since this site is for individual traders, for all intents and purposes you are wrong

 

[Daal]

Quick Google search proves you wrong: http://www.internationaltaxreview.c...-New-regulations-for-Brazilian-CFC-rules.html

Btw if you could avoid corporate taxes altogether by incorporating in a foreign country then there would be zero companies in Brazil. None, 0.

Wrong, the CFC rules for Br companies started in 2014. Before that there weren't any, yet there were plenty of companies in brazil

 

[dw31583]

Wrong, the CFC rules for Br companies started in 2014. Before that there weren't any, yet there were plenty of companies in brazil

Listen, what you're saying simply doesn't make sense. If you live in Brazil and you can avoid taxes altogether by incorporating in another country then everybody would be doing this and Brazil would be the biggest tax haven on the planet. People would move there from all over the world and they would leave Monaco, Dubai, Hong Kong, Singapore and every other country. Especially those people who make millions each year.

People on this forum frequently misunderstand what's legal and what's under the radar. You certainly won't get noticed with a $50k or $300k annual income with your offshore entity but you would be on the breaking news if you would make $100 million or $300 million and your 300ft yacht would be parking next to your $50 million home in Rio and yet you'd pay zero corporate tax on your income. So the difference between your and my understanding is that I'm looking for legal loopholes not under-the-radar-but-totally-illegal-if-you-get-caught things.

This ongoing Brazil CFC joke is the same bs that I've been listening from someone from the Netherlands who kept telling me that you pay only 1.2% tax on trading income then I contacted some Dutch lawyers and I've been told to forget about it. Yes you can pay 1.2% if you make $10k or $50k but not if you make $1 million.

So don't take this personal but we're looking for different things. You label me paranoid and god remember what else but the thing is we're just looking for different things. I'm looking for the legal solution if there is any. Most people here doesn't make enough money from trading to get noticed by anyone and especially not by the tax authorities in some 3rd world country like the Philippines or Brazil. Problems start growing once you make 7 and 8 figures each year.

 

[Daal]

Listen, what you're saying simply doesn't make sense. If you live in Brazil and you can avoid taxes altogether by incorporating in another country then everybody would be doing this and Brazil would be the biggest tax haven on the planet. People would move there from all over the world and they would leave Monaco, Dubai, Hong Kong, Singapore and every other country. Especially those people who make millions each year.

People on this forum frequently misunderstand what's legal and what's under the radar. You certainly won't get noticed with a $50k or $300k annual income with your offshore entity but you would be on the breaking news if you would make $100 million or $300 million and your 300ft yacht would be parking next to your $50 million home in Rio and yet you'd pay zero corporate tax on your income. So the difference between your and my understanding is that I'm looking for legal loopholes not under-the-radar-but-totally-illegal-if-you-get-caught things.

This ongoing Brazil CFC joke is the same bs that I've been listening from someone from the Netherlands who kept telling me that you pay only 1.2% tax on trading income then I contacted some Dutch lawyers and I've been told to forget about it. Yes you can pay 1.2% if you make $10k or $50k but not if you make $1 million.

So don't take this personal but we're looking for different things. You label me paranoid and god remember what else but the thing is we're just looking for different things. I'm looking for the legal solution if there is any. Most people here doesn't make enough money from trading to get noticed by anyone and especially not by the tax authorities in some 3rd world country like the Philippines or Brazil. Problems start growing once you make 7 and 8 figures each year.

Except in the case of brazil the lawyers do say its lawful. so did the government when they tried to close the loophole in 2014 but congress (which is a big user of the loophole) denied them. If you are waiting for things to "make sense" in dealing with brazil, you will be waiting forever