Quote from Tom B:
Do phytoestrogens increase estrogen levels in men?
you might want to read this:
"As bodybuilders, there are words we love and words we hate. Valued words include testosterone, muscle mass, androgens, protein and Tylene Buck. Bad words and phrases? Impotence, testicular withering, dialysis, and "she's got a boyfriend.".
In a class by itself is the dreaded E-word. Estrogen is one of the most feared words in bodybuilding, and sadly, one of the most misunderstood. "The vast majority of bodybuilders don't understand the nature and role of estrogen or phytoestrogens," observes Tom Prince, 1997 USA champion. "They haven't investigated the nature of the phytoestrogens or attempted to determine how and why estrogen is produced...in men, as well as in women." Without a good overview, the average bodybuilder avoids anything that has, could have, or may contribute to the production of estrogen.
"That's a shame," says Dr. Eugene Shippen, M.D., a Reading, Pennsylvania internist and author (with William Fryer) of The Testosterone Syndrome: The Critical Factor for Energy, Health, & Sexuality ---Reversing the Male Menopause (publisher: M. Evans and Company, Inc., New York, NY. ISBN #0-87131-829-6). "Both testosterone and estrogen play vital roles in the healthy male's life overall." And in their sex lives and ability to build muscle mass. Shippen is an unabashed proponent of testosterone supplementation to cure a wide variety of ills, from lethargy to the slowly creeping (and rather creepy concept of) male menopause, which he re-terms metabolic andropause. The symptoms of metabolic andropause, as related in Dr. Shippen's book, bear an almost uncanny resemblance to overtraining and the overuse of anabolic steroids:
....
If you're overtraining or taking anabolic steroids, these indicators of metabolic andropause, testosterone deficiency, or an estrogen/testosterone imbalance may seem more than fleetingly familiar: Nervousness, insomnia, depression, antisocial tendencies, inability to concentrate, hot flashes, chilliness, increased pulse rate, headache, weakness, fatigue, muscle pains, decreased urinary flow force coupled with more frequent urinations, decrease in sexual interest and decreased erections.
What's most remarkable about this batch of symptoms is that while they are thoroughly contemporary and familiar to many advanced bodybuilders, Shippen notes that they were described by researchers over 50 years ago! Although Reader's Digest detailed testosterone therapies in the 1930s and Dutch scientists synthesized testosterone in 1935, testosterone therapy has been slow to gain widespread medical community acceptance.
Bodybuilders, however, generally know the value of this hormone. Optimal muscular development cannot occur without it. And we take androgens, testosterone precursors, boosters, elevators, and prohormones __ anything to increase testosterone. According to Shippen's book, that's relatively good news, but we can miss some essential modulating factors, which sometimes result in andropausal symptoms recurring.
These recurrences center on 3 primary reasons: the testosterone delivery systems; elevated estrogen levels; and non-optimal estrogen/testosterone ratios.
Pellet and patch delivery systems seem to provide slower testosterone elevation than injections, although the end result of useable free testosterone within the blood ---often just 2 to 3% of total serum testosterone --- is comparable. Slower delivery and buildup often avoids corresponding spikes in estrogen levels. "Some estrogen is good," notes Dr. Shippen, "and is essential for many male functions, including sexual activity. What would concern us is too much estrogen overall, and for most men that will be anything above 30 ng/dl, and the ratio of testosterone to estrogen within the blood." Anything outside a 12- or 20-to-one proportion, and estrogen's negative effects can surface, including increased coronary risk (precisely the opposite effect of increased estrogen in women).
How You May Modulate Estrogen Levels
Since estrogen is essential to men as well as to women, what can we do to optimize the relationship between testosterone and estrogen; and to minimize -- but not eliminate -- aromatization? Dr. Shippen points to a few contributing factors which we can control, and opens the door to soy protein and phytoestrogens:"
more:
http://www.fitnessgeared.com/forum/showthread.php?p=920238
