Best Alternative to US Citizenship

[Angrycat]

Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

hi angry, i haven't yet renounced my citizenship. i'm confident that at this point i can avoid scrutiny by the IRS. i would renounce, but i'm hesitant to do so because of family issues... you know? also considering the israel route...

Well, good luck. When we escaped the Soviet Union in the 1970's, we understood we would never see or speak to our family again. It's hard, but living in a tyranny is unbearable. I'm afraid the soft tyranny in the United States will turn into a hard tyranny shortly. It's all pointing in that direction.

It is amazing to me that the United States - this bastion of freedom - would have rules of immigration similar to that of the Soviet Union. A massive exit tax, the right to refuse to allow you to renounce (political blacklisting if you request even if it's not granted) and banishment after renouncement. It wasn't always so. The rules didn't start getting really Draconian until the 1990's. Before then, you were a citizen because you considered it the best and most free country on earth, not because you were a slave of the state.

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from Angrycat:

Well, good luck. When we escaped the Soviet Union in the 1970's, we understood we would never see or speak to our family again. It's hard, but living in a tyranny is unbearable. I'm afraid the soft tyranny in the United States will turn into a hard tyranny shortly. It's all pointing in that direction.

I'm amazed at how few Americans appear to grasp this.. and fail to recognize the role Obama appears to be playing...

Obamacare is a soft tyranny play, not really about medical treatment. Obama's direction to "give anybody what they want" just to get SOMETHING PASSED NOW... is the "camel's nose under the tent"... they'll get the rest of the camel inside once they get this.. I hope there are enough Patriots and supporters of the Constitution in the Senate to prevent it from passing...

 

[Angrycat]

Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

right, and my exodus was based partially on the suspicion that the "soft tyranny" may indeed convert to a harder tyranny.... governments usually don't retract such measures once they begin down that path, right?

Only if they're fairly weak. If they don't have the bullying power of an 800 pound gorilla, the only way they can lure their own back is by providing incentives - lower tax rates, tax amnesty, etc. Like the Soviet Union, the U.S. has learned that it's large and powerful enough to bully its citizens. It's not like the founding fathers didn't try to prevent this by limiting the power of government, but the politicians and the Supreme court shredded the constitution a long time ago.

 

[adadadog]

expat survey:

http://www.offshore.hsbc.com/1/PA_1_4_S5/content/international/2g_pdfs/expat/expatresults09.pdf

 

[Tom B]

Quote from Gabfly1:

Then perhaps now would be a good time for you to move to John Galt's island, where you can barter woven baskets and such. And please be sure to take along as many like-minded people as you can find, especially the impossibly self-righteous specimens here at ET.

Thunderdog,

Why are you posting under the Gabfly1 alias?

 

[Emini Maestro]

Quote from Angrycat:

Well, good luck. When we escaped the Soviet Union in the 1970's, we understood we would never see or speak to our family again. It's hard, but living in a tyranny is unbearable. I'm afraid the soft tyranny in the United States will turn into a hard tyranny shortly. It's all pointing in that direction.

It is amazing to me that the United States - this bastion of freedom - would have rules of immigration similar to that of the Soviet Union. A massive exit tax, the right to refuse to allow you to renounce (political blacklisting if you request even if it's not granted) and banishment after renouncement. It wasn't always so. The rules didn't start getting really Draconian until the 1990's. Before then, you were a citizen because you considered it the best and most free country on earth, not because you were a slave of the state.

My ancestors also came from that region, Prussia and Ukraine to be exact, so we have history in dealing with, and in recognizing, socialism and all it entails. With friends emigrating from Russia in the 90s, we feel qualified to judge how socialism takes over a nation and the signs that make it plain.

Simply, no nation has ever implemented such socialist measures, and then turned back to freedom, without civil war. Bloody civil war. Bumma has three more years with which to sew his seeds of destruction for the USA, but socialism in the states did not begin with him, much less the devaluation of the US dollar. Those seeds go back to 1913.

It remains to be seen if history will be repeated in this land. Since the younger generations have not been taught to heed lessons of generations past, I see no reason why we would turn back to freedom, and I sincerely, but with regret, doubt that Americans today have the guts to do what the American South did 150 years ago, when they rejected the unsolicited tyranny, control and taxation of the Feds, with their lives.

We are not opposed to a move to Israel, as we have family there, as well. It's too crowded and hot for my taste, but freedom is the #1 consideration.

 

[tmarket]

Quote from Emini Maestro:
...I sincerely, but with regret, doubt that Americans today have the guts to do what the American South did 150 years ago, when they rejected the unsolicited tyranny, control and taxation of the Feds, with their lives.

We are not opposed to a move to Israel, as we have family there, as well. It's too crowded and hot for my taste, but freedom is the #1 consideration.

By all means, confiscate more land from the Palestinians and start your 'free' capitalism there. I can see from your writings that it is freedom for you and slavery for others that you seek.

 

[Emini Maestro]

Quote from tmarket:

By all means, confiscate more land from the Palestinians and start your 'free' capitalism there. I can see from your writings that it is freedom for you and slavery for others that you seek.

If my previous post arose any hate and racism in your mind, it was already there to begin with.

 

[drsteph]

Quote from adadadog:

expat survey:

http://www.offshore.hsbc.com/1/PA_1_4_S5/content/international/2g_pdfs/expat/expatresults09.pdf

Thank you for posting. That was very interesting. Not intuitive.

 

[leela]

Quote from christianhgross:

I am not an American, but I have dealt with many Americans and have American friends who live outside of America.

Here is how it works:

1) You are subject to taxation. But the catch is that they only ask for money if you are making oodles of money. For my friends who make about 100K USD they end up paying nothing for the most part. Unless of course they paid no taxes.

2) If you are an American, you are subject to special restrictions now. I work in the financial field and if you have an American passport you have to be declared and all institutions will declare you. You cannot hide. It is not a big deal for those that don't rake in the millions.

Overall all of the Americans I have met would never give up their passport even though they have these extra hoops. From their discussions it seems these are paper hoops without any ramifications in terms of finances.

The flip side is that American's tend to get many rights such as voting and being part of the American community.

If you can get a second passport from another country, always register your foreign employment, income and assets using the other passport while leaving aboard. That is what I would do. I am trying to get another passpost that is not too hard to get. Any suggestions?