Bernie Sanders: Trump supporters really want me

[Tsing Tao]

What possible incentive can you give ten million people to go work for $15 an hour when they have to pay almost half of that to take care of the kids (and those are illegal aliens taking care of your kids that will take any work)? Instead, they collect "entitlements" and take care of their own kids. You can cry that they should go and work, but it is not going to happen.

Fine. Double it to $30 an hour. Even then, after taxes they would make less than some families do on welfare assistance combined.

Some of the findings of the Illinois study, discussing how welfare actually keeps people poor:

• A wide range of benefits provides a large magnitude of support. The potential sum of welfare benefits can reach $47,894 annually for single-parent households and $41,237 for two-parent households. Welfare benefits will be available to some households earning as much as $74,880 annually.

• Welfare cliffs are significant and can trap families. A single mom has the most resources available to her family when she works full time at a wage of $8.25 to $12 an hour. Disturbingly, taking a pay increase to $18 an hour can leave her with about one-third fewer total resources (net income and government benefits). In order to make work “pay” again, she would need an hourly wage of $38 to mitigate the impact of lost benefits and higher taxes.

• The system is inequitable. A minimum wage increase to $10 an hour would push a household where both parents work for minimum wage over the welfare cliff. They would suffer a net loss in household resources of about $9,000 as reduced government benefits more than cancel out the higher wages.

You are not solving the problem. I am not solving the problem. The real problem is getting people to value their educations so that they can rise above the stench of $15/Hr. But, waiiiitttt!!!! Who can afford to be in debt for $250,000 for a piece of shit education at many American higher learning institutions? What is worse, that is just for an undergraduate degree that might get you $75,000/yr which means you will be paying off school until you are 50. See, it is a vicious circle. People can't get out of their own way in the current system towards a stable middle class.

And why are those degrees so expensive? You need to read up a bit on government subsidizing the cost of education through student loans, etc. Completely and totally distorted the price that universities have been charging.

The answer is high quality affordable education in conjuction with a living wage for people that are not suited for whatever reason to get a higher education. But you can't just make a higher education more affordable, it actually has to be worth it too.

No disagreement there. But the answer isn't necessarily higher minimum wage like your thread implied.

 

[jem]

short answer... govt backed loans allow the institutions to jack up rates to extract the savings from the working class and make big extra market profits instead of providing reasonably priced education.

Private lenders would not lend this kind of money to kids so schools would have to compete on price as they did prior to the 90s.
---
Detailed answer... the cronies who back the democrats and establishment republicans have destroyed the education system while looting govt backed loans for big profits.


for instance... on this issue..


The establishment guys like Goldman Sachs... have found a way to rig the system.

Goldman and friends own many of the schools which benefit from these ridiculous govt loan programs. young adults take out big loans go to these empty for profit schools with empty degrees. They frequently don't graduate and frequently don't good jobs.

These same loan govt backed loan programs also allow the real schools to jack up their tuition rates of those who can afford to pay (stealing the savings out of the working class) and then give back money to those who don't have parents who saved money...

.
if these loans were not govt backed... those lending the money would have to lend sane amounts and the prices would come down accordingly.

You might note that Obamacare was sort of pattern on the same concept.
jack up rates... extract as much money as you can from the most people.
And, reduce rates to the poorer people.

This is a monopolist's/communists dream scenario as it destroys the free market and sane pricing behaviors. You price to the maximum extraction point and when those taking out loans fail to pay the interest and principle...you get the govt to pay.

What possible incentive can you give ten million people to go work for $15 an hour when they have to pay almost half of that to take care of the kids (and those are illegal aliens taking care of your kids that will take any work)? Instead, they collect "entitlements" and take care of their own kids. You can cry that they should go and work, but it is not going to happen.

You are not solving the problem. I am not solving the problem. The real problem is getting people to value their educations so that they can rise above the stench of $15/Hr. But, waiiiitttt!!!! Who can afford to be in debt for $250,000 for a piece of shit education at many American higher learning institutions? What is worse, that is just for an undergraduate degree that might get you $75,000/yr which means you will be paying off school until you are 50. See, it is a vicious circle. People can't get out of their own way in the current system towards a stable middle class.

The answer is high quality affordable education in conjuction with a living wage for people that are not suited for whatever reason to get a higher education. But you can't just make a higher education more affordable, it actually has to be worth it too.

 

[ETcallhome]

Home education has exploded. But by itself it cannot be the final answer. There are too many people and one-on-one education is extremely lucrative and inefficient except for the wealthy.

I see a future where instead of kids going to a building with a bunch of other kids, many of them unmotivated or at different level of preparation, teachers will become entrepreneurs. They will create or buy video courses, and then they will have virtual classrooms where kids can be taught. This has many advantages, one of which is that if a kid gets rowdy or unmotivated, you can cut his/her participation in the virtual classroom with a touch of a button. The VR classroom that I envision will have the images of all kids and teacher participating projected into your home.

This also frees the teacher from being a baby sitter and all the positives from not having to take on that role, e.g., zero or very low insurance rates to teach. That is not their job. They are also not surrogate parents. Role models and mentors, yes.

what did I just say? It's my new thing. I'm dropping out of the libertarian party and joining the equity party. Our goal is everybody owns a piece of everything. Their school, their hospital, even their place of employment.

(still have a few kinks to work out. I'm a renter now and I like it better than I liked owning)

 

[Scataphagos]

BULLSHIT!

I'm a Trump supporter, and I'd don't want Sanders (nor Hillary)... regardless.

 

[CaptainObvious]

What possible incentive can you give ten million people to go work for $15 an hour when they have to pay almost half of that to take care of the kids (and those are illegal aliens taking care of your kids that will take any work)? Instead, they collect "entitlements" and take care of their own kids. You can cry that they should go and work, but it is not going to happen.

You are not solving the problem. I am not solving the problem. The real problem is getting people to value their educations so that they can rise above the stench of $15/Hr. But, waiiiitttt!!!! Who can afford to be in debt for $250,000 for a piece of shit education at many American higher learning institutions? What is worse, that is just for an undergraduate degree that might get you $75,000/yr which means you will be paying off school until you are 50. See, it is a vicious circle. People can't get out of their own way in the current system towards a stable middle class.

The answer is high quality affordable education in conjuction with a living wage for people that are not suited for whatever reason to get a higher education. But you can't just make a higher education more affordable, it actually has to be worth it too.

The problem is when a socialist says "high quality affordable education", what they really mean is free education. This presents two problems. In the real world there is no such thing as free. Someone pays. That someone is the taxpayer. Secondly, "free" is rarely high quality.
What we have is a dumb it down leftist education system, taught by you can't fire me leftist professors, run by greedy leftist administrators, everything facilitated idiot leftist politicians, all of whom have been gouging the system for decades. Gee, what can possibly go wrong with a system like that? You end up with what we have, which is a bunch of 20 something dummies buried in debt and no prospect of employment at any pay scale.

 

[Ditch]

I used to believe that, till I realise - thanks to China's billions habitants - that it was our leaders that were incompetent. When you understand that politiciens, scientists can make mistakes and get it wrong, you start to think.
Have you ever made a mistake ? at school, in a math exam ? yes.
Can politicians, scientists, philosoph make mistakes? yes.
How comes China could lift 700 millions people out of poverty in 10 years,
when in the West we were never able to lift more than 50 millions people
max out of poverty in centuries?
Don't let yourself be fooled by other people's errors.

China's policies exactly prove my point. It has been the sole country on the earth that has had an active restriction policy towards it's population growth, which has been a key factor in improving the living standard of the Chinese. China has shown what economic growth combined with controlled population growth can achieve.

 

[smallStops]

So you are saying that China's one child policy is the cause of its growth?
What mistake are they thus doing with allowing a second child.

By the way, which continents and countries should have their population reduced?

 

[ETcallhome]

So you are saying that China's one child policy is the cause of its growth?
What mistake are they thus doing with allowing a second child.

By the way, which continents and countries should have their population reduced?

they simply borrowed the population from a future generation who now must pay more for the elderly

 

[Ditch]

So you are saying that China's one child policy is the cause of its growth?

I'm not saying that. I'm saying controlled population growth has been one of the two major components in fighting poverty in the case of China. The other factor has been economic growth.

 

[futurecurrents]

BULLSHIT!

I'm a Trump supporter, and I'd don't want Sanders (nor Hillary)... regardless.

THAT'S IT!!!!!!!!!!!! ON IGNORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!BUCKEROO!!!!