Bernie Sanders Transaction Tax?

[KevMo]

This "Tobin Tax" idea has been circling the beltway in left-wing think tanks since 1972. It's currently DOA. Who knows what may happen in the future.

Though, as has been rightly pointed out in this thread, if ever enacted it would massively drain liquidity from the currently organized U.S financial system. Markets would end up re-organizing in some other form, possibly even in some other jurisdiction.

FT has a good article on what happened to Sweden when they tried this in '91. All their trading & liquidity just left, reorganized in London. It yielded less than 5% of projected revs.

It's axiomatic to all sane people that if you want less of something - tax it. But, do not delude yourself into believing that volume will remain the same thereby using it to derive a new source of revenue.

Truthfully, I don't think even Bernie or Warren believe their own bullshit. I think they think it sounds good to their base. Merely talking points to be used by demagogues when attempting to create a wedge...Us vs. Them.

There's always gonna be a ton of otherwise good people who agree with polemics such as, "Tax those Wall Street crooks who YOU bailed out when they crashed the economy!!!"

#sheesh

 

[tommcginnis]

Interesting perspective!

"Nanny State-ism" at it's finest.

It won't matter that it destroys whole markets -- and in constraining choices, ruins liquidity born from velocity-of-money easily more than in the sliver of reserves that *may* benefit reduced choices. That won't get counted. And 'price signals'?? The information lost by 'sticky' markets and higher transaction costs?? "Meh!" Bernie'll brush that off for The Greater Good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadweight_loss

(You can see the same thing with higher ed: from 1980s to now, how/why did college tuition grossly outpace the CPI? What "made" schools spend so much more? MULTIPLES more? In putting higher ed costs onto the public (taxpayer), what (further) price signal is being sent to the schools which have already shown such a *fantastic* inability to control their spending for the last 40 years? Should someone put that question to Bernie..... I would LOVE to hear the answer.)

 

[speedo]

"Nanny State-ism" at it's finest.

It won't matter that it destroys whole markets -- and in constraining choices, ruins liquidity born from velocity-of-money easily more than in the sliver of reserves that *may* benefit reduced choices. That won't get counted. And 'price signals'?? The information lost by 'sticky' markets and higher transaction costs?? "Meh!" Bernie'll brush that off for The Greater Good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadweight_loss

(You can see the same thing with higher ed: from 1980s to now, how/why did college tuition grossly outpace the CPI? What "made" schools spend so much more? MULTIPLES more? In putting higher ed costs onto the public (taxpayer), what (further) price signal is being sent to the schools which have already shown such a *fantastic* inability to control their spending for the last 40 years? Should someone put that question to Bernie..... I would LOVE to hear the answer.)

Not sure he'd understand the question.

 

[KevMo]

Agree. One of the few fears I have. Class warfare that spins outta control.

If it does gain serious traction in the U.S to point where it begins to affect my life I'll be hauling my narrow arse somewhere else.

I started preparing for this since Clinton was in office. I never wanted to be caught at Passport control when everyone is rushing for the exits. Too late then.

I think there’s a real chance we will experience a more dramatic form of socialism in the West compared to what we have had so far. Hopefully it fails as per usual and we move on.

 

[speedo]

Agree. One of the few fears I have. Class warfare that spins outta control.

If it does gain serious traction in the U.S to point where it begins to affect my life I'll be hauling my narrow arse somewhere else.

I started preparing for this since Clinton was in office. I never wanted to be caught at Passport control when everyone is rushing for the exits. Too late then.

The border is porous and Mexico City has an International airport. Getting to MC without having your head chopped off can be a challenge.

 

[dozu888]

The border is porous and Mexico City has an International airport. Getting to MC without having your head chopped off can be a challenge.

nah... CDMX is a cool place...and the culinary capital of north america... tons of culture too... just don't get involved in drugs and you be fine.

 

[speedo]

nah... CDMX is a cool place...and the culinary capital of north america... tons of culture too... just don't get involved in drugs and you be fine.

I like Mexico City, it's the areas to there from the border that are the issue. Bandits and hostage taking are common.

 

[dozu888]

This "Tobin Tax" idea has been circling the beltway in left-wing think tanks since 1972. It's currently DOA. Who knows what may happen in the future.

Though, as has been rightly pointed out in this thread, if ever enacted it would massively drain liquidity from the currently organized U.S financial system. Markets would end up re-organizing in some other form, possibly even in some other jurisdiction.

FT has a good article on what happened to Sweden when they tried this in '91. All their trading & liquidity just left, reorganized in London. It yielded less than 5% of projected revs.

It's axiomatic to all sane people that if you want less of something - tax it. But, do not delude yourself into believing that volume will remain the same thereby using it to derive a new source of revenue.

Truthfully, I don't think even Bernie or Warren believe their own bullshit. I think they think it sounds good to their base. Merely talking points to be used by demagogues when attempting to create a wedge...Us vs. Them.

There's always gonna be a ton of otherwise good people who agree with polemics such as, "Tax those Wall Street crooks who YOU bailed out when they crashed the economy!!!"

#sheesh

of course the Dem/Soc elites don't believe their own bullshit... it's all about power grab.. and the biggest flaw of democracy is that every vote is equally weighted.

if the voting system is weighted, say on pre-tax income.... then Bernie/Warren and alike will flee their base so fast you wont' believe.

 

[destriero]

Agree. One of the few fears I have. Class warfare that spins outta control.

If it does gain serious traction in the U.S to point where it begins to affect my life I'll be hauling my narrow arse somewhere else.

I started preparing for this since Clinton was in office. I never wanted to be caught at Passport control when everyone is rushing for the exits. Too late then.

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/guns.323979/

 

[ETJ]

I'm of the belief that the real intent is to get it into the Democratic platform. I also don't believe they care how long it takes or how much they raise.
It murders HFT and that in itself hurts volume and is probably their primary objective.
SALT limits were destined not to pass and they did.
Mortgage cap was destined not to pass and it did.
Warren last night discussed a 2% wealth tax - if they run the table in 2020 be prepared for anything.