Either you are a tightwad or an unsuccessful trader or hyperbole is your stock in trade.
Bernie Maddoff may receive sentence commutation
- Thread starter Cuddles
- Start date
Either you are a tightwad or an unsuccessful trader or hyperbole is your stock in trade.
Haha, yes, that!
That is factually totally untrue. 70% was recovered because the returns that earlier investors were promised and received were clawed back. Legally a highly questionable if not illegal act that is and will be challenged in the court of law.
According to you no hospital or doctor should ever force patients to sign an indemnity agreement. After all every doctor and hospital signs up for death penalty and bankruptcy should they overlook a disease that leads to death but might otherwise have had potential to be cured.
You are talking out of your ass, my friend. The SEC as well as any doctor or other regulator are upheld to do their best. That does not mean they are perfect or act maliciously if they overlook something
You are talking out of your ass, my friend. The SEC as well as any doctor or other regulator are upheld to do their best. That does not mean they are perfect or act maliciously if they overlook something
Grulstmrnn, you may be a great trader, and I’ve read some rather intelligent thoughts you’ve had regarding trading, but you are not a lawyer and you are making legal statements that are just wrong.
1) If clawback laws being used to recover the money weren’t legal in this situation, they would be challenged in court to prevent the money from being returned. The people doing the clawing back aren’t just calling and saying “please wire me x as you don’t get to keep it”. People don’t voluntarily give back money. When you are being asked to return millions, it is not that expensive to spend 50-100k to have a lawyer file a motion for summary judgment and have a judge rule the law is inapplicable or unconstitutional. This likely has occurred unsuccessfully.
2) Patients may sign some sort of waiver of liability/release, but not “indemnity” agreements. (At least not in the context you are talking about) Any language to the contrary is likely boilerplate and wrong. Indemnity has to do with one party paying back money another party is liable for or lost. Auto insurance is an indemnity agreement, between you and the insurance company for your bad driving that harms someone else that you become liable for. When you become legally liable to someone you hit with your car, the insurance company “indemnify’s” you by paying (up to a certain amount). BTW, with few exceptions, doctors are still usually liable for their negligence. I’ve sued them, they have paid. Trust me on this one as definitions regarding legal terms written by non lawyers often aren’t correct.
3) the only reason the SEC likely did not bear some monetary liability for failing to prevent madoff’s decades long criminal conduct is because the SEC is immune to civil monetary liability due to it being a governmental entity. Think of it this way, if you hired a private non governmental security company to prevent the theft of paintings from your home art vault and thieves, over a period of decades break into your art vault regularly and steal from it and someone told the security company there were issues with your vault, do you think you should be able to sue the security company? Of course you should/could as they probably didn’t do their job in a reasonable manner. A jury should be able to listen to the facts to determine this and award damages accordingly. Usually, the standard for doing a job is not “doing your best” but acting “reasonably” (Like a normal average security company (or doctor) would do in the same or similar situation.) There is a big difference between doing your best and getting an F on a test and getting a C like the average student. If it was not the immune govt SEC and instead it was a private company that was charged with enforcing the rules, that private company would likely be sued out of existence. (If the SEC wasn’t immune for its inaction, and a jury found it liable, the next question would be “what proportion of the harm did the SEC cause compared to Madoff).
Don’t take my SEC example to mean that I think that madoff shouldn’t be in prison for the rest of his life. Madoff being in prison is a criminal matter while the sec’s responsibility is a civil matter. He unquestionably is guilty criminally. The SEC is unquestionably notcivilly liable due to immunity.
Anyone that thinks that because it wasn’t a violent crime he should be treated less harshly is part of the problem in criminal justice. I suspect that same person would be ready to throw away the key if Trump’s tax returns somehow showed he took a bribe from Russia, which similarly to Madoff, would be criminal yet nonviolent conduct.
1) If clawback laws being used to recover the money weren’t legal in this situation, they would be challenged in court to prevent the money from being returned. The people doing the clawing back aren’t just calling and saying “please wire me x as you don’t get to keep it”. People don’t voluntarily give back money. When you are being asked to return millions, it is not that expensive to spend 50-100k to have a lawyer file a motion for summary judgment and have a judge rule the law is inapplicable or unconstitutional. This likely has occurred unsuccessfully.
2) Patients may sign some sort of waiver of liability/release, but not “indemnity” agreements. (At least not in the context you are talking about) Any language to the contrary is likely boilerplate and wrong. Indemnity has to do with one party paying back money another party is liable for or lost. Auto insurance is an indemnity agreement, between you and the insurance company for your bad driving that harms someone else that you become liable for. When you become legally liable to someone you hit with your car, the insurance company “indemnify’s” you by paying (up to a certain amount). BTW, with few exceptions, doctors are still usually liable for their negligence. I’ve sued them, they have paid. Trust me on this one as definitions regarding legal terms written by non lawyers often aren’t correct.
3) the only reason the SEC likely did not bear some monetary liability for failing to prevent madoff’s decades long criminal conduct is because the SEC is immune to civil monetary liability due to it being a governmental entity. Think of it this way, if you hired a private non governmental security company to prevent the theft of paintings from your home art vault and thieves, over a period of decades break into your art vault regularly and steal from it and someone told the security company there were issues with your vault, do you think you should be able to sue the security company? Of course you should/could as they probably didn’t do their job in a reasonable manner. A jury should be able to listen to the facts to determine this and award damages accordingly. Usually, the standard for doing a job is not “doing your best” but acting “reasonably” (Like a normal average security company (or doctor) would do in the same or similar situation.) There is a big difference between doing your best and getting an F on a test and getting a C like the average student. If it was not the immune govt SEC and instead it was a private company that was charged with enforcing the rules, that private company would likely be sued out of existence. (If the SEC wasn’t immune for its inaction, and a jury found it liable, the next question would be “what proportion of the harm did the SEC cause compared to Madoff).
Don’t take my SEC example to mean that I think that madoff shouldn’t be in prison for the rest of his life. Madoff being in prison is a criminal matter while the sec’s responsibility is a civil matter. He unquestionably is guilty criminally. The SEC is unquestionably notcivilly liable due to immunity.
Anyone that thinks that because it wasn’t a violent crime he should be treated less harshly is part of the problem in criminal justice. I suspect that same person would be ready to throw away the key if Trump’s tax returns somehow showed he took a bribe from Russia, which similarly to Madoff, would be criminal yet nonviolent conduct.
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Bernie Madoff says he’s dying, asks to be freed from prison
By Associated Press Published: Feb 5, 2020 7:12 p.m. ET
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/b...be-freed-from-prison-2020-02-05?mod=home-page
81-year-old reportedly has end-stage kidney disease; has spent a decade behind bars for Ponzi scheme
By Associated Press Published: Feb 5, 2020 7:12 p.m. ET
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/b...be-freed-from-prison-2020-02-05?mod=home-page
81-year-old reportedly has end-stage kidney disease; has spent a decade behind bars for Ponzi scheme
If he had, few weeks left to live, with 100% certainty, then it's reasonable.Bernie Madoff says he’s dying, asks to be freed from prison
By Associated Press Published: Feb 5, 2020 7:12 p.m. ET
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/b...be-freed-from-prison-2020-02-05?mod=home-page
81-year-old reportedly has end-stage kidney disease; has spent a decade behind bars for Ponzi scheme
But if that ,,dying", get's prolonged to 3 ~ 5 years..
Bernie Madoff says he’s dying, asks to be freed from prison
By Associated Press Published: Feb 5, 2020 7:12 p.m. ET
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/b...be-freed-from-prison-2020-02-05?mod=home-page
81-year-old reportedly has end-stage kidney disease; has spent a decade behind bars for Ponzi scheme
If that's true...
He most likely has been leaving the prison location 1 - 3 times per week for kidney dialysis for those with end stage kidney disease.
Seems like going to a local hospital for his kidney dialysis gave him a thirst for more freedom or he doesn't like the medical treatment he's been getting for his end stage kidney disease while in prison.
Also, not common for prisoners with end stage kidney disease to qualify for kidney transplant especially someone that's as well known as him although by law all prisoners are guarantee access to medical care.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...y-cruel/b4411613-d485-4281-9bef-f583a76deb10/
Most likely Bernie is at the bottom of any kidney transplant list unless he can get out of prison and negotiate an under the table transplant deal with a private organization.
wrbtrader
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womp, wompBernie Madoff says he’s dying, asks to be freed from prison
By Associated Press Published: Feb 5, 2020 7:12 p.m. ET
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/b...be-freed-from-prison-2020-02-05?mod=home-page
81-year-old reportedly has end-stage kidney disease; has spent a decade behind bars for Ponzi scheme
inb4 presidential medal of freedom