Beliefs That Sabotage Traders
- Thread starter Rande Howell
- Start date
I wasn't aware that Rande is a salesman neither am I looking for a massage to profitability. Some articles are just interesting even though the OP has ulterior motives as elucidated by ETeers.
I'm not supporting or defending anyone here but I generally do not subscribe to the idea that to be able to teach one must be able to do. It's completely two different things here teaching ability and ability to do.
In my former career as a Professional Mechanical Design Engineer many of my former University Professors could not produce practical designs as well as I did but were very good at showing me the ropes on how to do it. The same scenario plays out in virtually all professions. e.g. Many Imperial College & Harvard Post-Grad Business School Professors are just good at teaching but within 3 months would bankrupt a solid firm if running it. Their skills whilsts appropiate for academia world they are just not good enough for the real world.
I know some of the best design engineers out there who really know how to do but are lousy at passing on that knowledge. Equally there are some crap design engineers who can't design shit yet are very good teachers.
To be effective as a teacher I think one only needs a basic understanding of the subject and grasp concepts well but its imperative communications skills must be above average.
I'm not supporting or defending anyone here but I generally do not subscribe to the idea that to be able to teach one must be able to do. It's completely two different things here teaching ability and ability to do.
In my former career as a Professional Mechanical Design Engineer many of my former University Professors could not produce practical designs as well as I did but were very good at showing me the ropes on how to do it. The same scenario plays out in virtually all professions. e.g. Many Imperial College & Harvard Post-Grad Business School Professors are just good at teaching but within 3 months would bankrupt a solid firm if running it. Their skills whilsts appropiate for academia world they are just not good enough for the real world.
I know some of the best design engineers out there who really know how to do but are lousy at passing on that knowledge. Equally there are some crap design engineers who can't design shit yet are very good teachers.
To be effective as a teacher I think one only needs a basic understanding of the subject and grasp concepts well but its imperative communications skills must be above average.
Shagi,
I absolutely agree with youâ¦
Although in the case of trading â I would prefer someone whoâs been there (actually trades) and can actually relate to the weird crap floating around in my head at timesâ¦.
I just think that if he is really trying to help, then he should offer up some solutions, with out payment
Give us something to consider/ judge/ evaluate â useâ¦â¦
All I see is him memorializing the issues we face â with a promise to help â for a priceâ¦.
And I donât much cotton to the idea of being a lab rat for anyone
Good Trading Sir
RN
I absolutely agree with youâ¦
Although in the case of trading â I would prefer someone whoâs been there (actually trades) and can actually relate to the weird crap floating around in my head at timesâ¦.
I just think that if he is really trying to help, then he should offer up some solutions, with out payment
Give us something to consider/ judge/ evaluate â useâ¦â¦
All I see is him memorializing the issues we face â with a promise to help â for a priceâ¦.
And I donât much cotton to the idea of being a lab rat for anyone
Good Trading Sir
RN
Trying to remain on topic, nobody can help a trader with discipline problems unless that trader is truly open for help. In fact, there are recent threads here at ET where traders state their discipline problems along with "self help" solutions that's very surface level or naive. Yet, there's nothing mention by the trader that's beyond the surface level info that could be the real cause of the discipline problems.
For example, there was one thread in the past by someone that had major discipline trading problems and he never disclosed publicly in his thread that there were currently serious personal issues in his life. However, not known too many, he did disclosed in private message that he was in the middle of a nasty divorce, debtors calling him almost every day along with financial responsibility of carry for an elderly parent that was very ill.
In contrast, he only discussed publicly in his trade journal thread that he was having problems pulling the trigger, revenge trading and so on. As a result, just about every advice being posted in his trade journal here at ET was aimed at his trade method or generic surface level psychology talk about how to manage fear.
Thus, most advice given by traders or trader psychologists will miss the target because all those giving advice truly don't know what's going on behind the online user name of the trader with discipline problems if they don't probe for causes.
Therefore, I'm a strong believer that information about what's going on in our personal lives needs to be revealed to a trader psychologist for that professional to provide proper support and solutions. Thus, if you want a trader psychologist to show up at Elitetrader.com or any other forum to give free advice without him/her knowing anything about you that any other clinical psychologist would ask questions about if seeing you in person...
Any advice given online will miss it's target until the trader psychologist can determine if there are personal issues sabotaging ones trading or if the problems are strictly trading related only. It seems obvious (doesn't it?) that there needs to be a two sided relationship (not one sided) between a psychologist of any kind and a person with problems that's sabotaging their career...
Regardless if its a trader or Charlie Sheen.
Mark
For example, there was one thread in the past by someone that had major discipline trading problems and he never disclosed publicly in his thread that there were currently serious personal issues in his life. However, not known too many, he did disclosed in private message that he was in the middle of a nasty divorce, debtors calling him almost every day along with financial responsibility of carry for an elderly parent that was very ill.
In contrast, he only discussed publicly in his trade journal thread that he was having problems pulling the trigger, revenge trading and so on. As a result, just about every advice being posted in his trade journal here at ET was aimed at his trade method or generic surface level psychology talk about how to manage fear.
Thus, most advice given by traders or trader psychologists will miss the target because all those giving advice truly don't know what's going on behind the online user name of the trader with discipline problems if they don't probe for causes.
Therefore, I'm a strong believer that information about what's going on in our personal lives needs to be revealed to a trader psychologist for that professional to provide proper support and solutions. Thus, if you want a trader psychologist to show up at Elitetrader.com or any other forum to give free advice without him/her knowing anything about you that any other clinical psychologist would ask questions about if seeing you in person...
Any advice given online will miss it's target until the trader psychologist can determine if there are personal issues sabotaging ones trading or if the problems are strictly trading related only. It seems obvious (doesn't it?) that there needs to be a two sided relationship (not one sided) between a psychologist of any kind and a person with problems that's sabotaging their career...
Regardless if its a trader or Charlie Sheen.
Mark
I like where you're going with this. I think most people don't recognize that they have the power to change how they feel by getting their head on straight and finding the right perspective. They see themselves as victims that must suffer. "my girlfriend cheated on me so I'm supposed to be down in the dumps for weeks and weeks". It's nonsense. Put in the right perspective, there's almost nothing in this world that can hurt you.
Hypo, give this up. The youth learn differently than we did. They will not put in the work. U r a good guy, and we have exchanged many posts while I was learning. This group has gotten worse and worse and it is by design. Why do you think America no longer produce mathematicians, physicists, or engineers? Let it go hypo, focus on your kids, failing that, focus on some female in the third world who would clip the hairs on your balls by hand if you would only take her to America
Poor Hypo aperiodically goes off his meds and rants and raves about the pussification of the American male. He spent most of his career mentoring young engineers who were willing to work hard to create strong careers for themselves and their friends. So he was shocked to be put out to pasture because "Now it's not IQ that counts, it's EQ, and you're a dinosaur. Young people today want to go home at 5 o'clock. They don't want to work hard. We get complaints that you push too much." Well, one day not too far in the future we will have an SHTF event where pussies will fall by the wayside crying for their mommies. Those who remember that the Roman root of the English word "virtue" is "virtus", strength, will prevail. Trading may not require physical toughness, but it DOES require mental toughness. So when Hypo reads pussy bullshit like this thread and its supporters, he is obliged to puke all over everybody's screens.
Agree 100%. I have worked with a trading psychologist and learned a lot about how aspects my personality and personal life get played out in my trading. The guy I've worked with, Andrew Menaker, is very good (he's an active trader and a clinical psychologist), and what he does is interview a potential client to see if there are any issues that might make his job more difficult, or maybe even impossible, in which case he tells the person he can't work with them. I don't know exactly what he looks for, but I suspect that major personal issues like a marriage that is ending or a drug or alcohol problem might be some of what he looks for to screen his clients.
Andrew also strongly discouraged me from spending time on ET due to various reasons, but now that I've got my trading legs back again, he's lightened up on that. I asked him if he would ever come to ET, and he said he saw no benefit in it for him or for anyone he may respond to. He basically told me what you said above about not knowing the 'real issues' behind a trader's struggles, and only going on what someone decides to type in is generally not enough to go on to help beyond what you can can get out of reading in a book or a trading psychology article somewhere.