Been Hosed By Your Discount Broker Lately?

QQQBALL · Jan 18, 2003

Quote from hii a_ooiioo_a:

Have you followed your partner's lead and switched to IB? If not, what are you waiting for?

i have not. it might be easier to resolve this issue as a "continuing" client than as an "ex-client." dont you agree?

i trade as a LP rather than an individual. this complicates things a bit in terms of "professional fees" with IB. not mind boggling, but just another wrinkle.

regardless if i am a client or not a client, i will continue to point out RJT's attitude of screwing their clients. the fact is, its irrelevant whether i have switched or not as long as they continue to screw clients.

thank you for your response.

QQQBALL · Jan 18, 2003

Quote from cheeks:

That is absolutely ridiculous. You are not sniveling at all. I would be furious.

i was shocked more than furious - of course, i was having the conversation at like 5:30 am or 6:00 am PST. kinda amazing really. they must have some cashflow issues... trying to hit the high margin stuff really hard. if times get tougher, maybe they will start charging $1 a trade for email confirmations. LOL! that's $60 for a single email! think of the profit!

as in many instances, the word will get around and the short-term windfall they get by screwing their clients will be more than offset by their long-term loss in clients and eventually revenues. businesses in competitive industries that try and pull this crap dont excell - never have, never will. the word will get around and even if other folks havent been "dinged" by the charge, they will rethink doing business with a broker who operates at this level. BTW, has anyone bought a HP scanner recenly and been told that the ink cartridge is a "starter" that only lasts for a few days. i did and had to buy like a $30 cartridge and a $35 cable. believe me, i'll be thinking real hard before i buy another HP product - and i have the laser jet IV and color 4550 printers. they have been the industry standard - wonder what happens to their leadership each time they pull that crap.

when you think about it, the internet is wonderful - 20 years ago, everyone had to deal with it on their own when it happens to them... maybe 15,0000 people read about this issue on ET. maybe they talk to 3 to 5 people each (on average) or the issue is posted on a chat or web-site with a larger membership, and the information flow just increases exponentially. after that, its away you go! pretty amazing.

cheeks · Jan 18, 2003

Quote from QQQBALL:

i trade as a LP rather than an individual. this complicates things a bit in terms of "professional fees" with IB. not mind boggling, but just another wrinkle.

Not that there is a shortage of opinions on IB on this site, but I have been very pleased with them so far. One think I definitely like is that they don't hide fees. Heck, they don't even charge for outgoing wires! I just wish I had found them earlier.

Hope all turns out well,

Cheeks

hii a_ooiioo_a · Jan 18, 2003

Quote from QQQBALL:

It might be easier to resolve this issue as a "continuing" client than as an "ex-client." dont you agree?
the fact is, its irrelevant whether i have switched or not as long as they continue to screw clients.

For your own peace of mind I suggested opening an IB account. You don't need to close your RJT account. You only need $2,000 minimum to open the account. If you transferred $2,000 of securities or funds from you RJT to your new IB account, that would make it clear to RJT that they were losing another customer to IB, which might get through to them more than anything you tell them while you remain as far as they can tell a "loyal" customer. "I'm taking my business elsewhere!" might get their attention.

You might even find you like IB better regardless.

twobits · Jan 18, 2003

Another factor for RJT vs. IB -- RJT charges extra to direct to an ECN. May not be a problem during the day but if you get stuck with a position to ditch after hours with RJT it will cost you an extra 1 cent/share.

FWIW, I had a problem with Waterhouse (before RJT) where they busted a fill without notifying me. It cost me $800... their initial response was the same as you, sent me coupons for 5 free trades or something.

I escalated it with letters and finally (several months) got someone who had enough sense to realize that $800 wasn't worth losing a customer who had given them thousands in commissions that year.

Of course, I was so aggravated by the time it was done that I ditched them anyway.

Which made me doubly dismayed to see RJT bought by them.

Not sure it'd be worth the aggravation for $150, but maybe you can escalate it faster. It was a letter to some VP that finally got me my money.

What's really ridiculous in your case is that they have almost no actual out-of-pocket expense.

QQQBALL · Jan 18, 2003

Quote from twobits:

Another factor for RJT vs. IB -- RJT charges extra to direct to an ECN. May not be a problem during the day but if you get stuck with a position to ditch after hours with RJT it will cost you an extra 1 cent/share.

FWIW, I had a problem with Waterhouse (before RJT) where they busted a fill without notifying me. It cost me $800... their initial response was the same as you, sent me coupons for 5 free trades or something.

I escalated it with letters and finally (several months) got someone who had enough sense to realize that $800 wasn't worth losing a customer who had given them thousands in commissions that year.

Of course, I was so aggravated by the time it was done that I ditched them anyway. Which made me doubly dismayed to see RJT bought by them.

Not sure it'd be worth the aggravation for $150, but maybe you can escalate it faster. It was a letter to some VP that finally got me my money.

What's really ridiculous in your case is that they have almost no actual out-of-pocket expense.

well, i think it came to 173 trades for the month as i didnt trade in november or in december until about the 12th of the month - after i discovered the problem i wasnt reallt looking to turn alot of tricks for them. i asked to speak to compliance, who apparently decided the matter for RJT. i was told they wouldnt talk to me - "they dont talk to people." i wonder if they only talk to calculators.

the bigger issue is that the SEC cannot help (so it becomes a consumer protection agency problem and ill spend way more hours trying to fight it than the cost of the dry-hump they give "clients." along this vain, its not unlike the trade-throughs, when they hold your order (between their legs) until the price moves against you, screw you on a market order, etc... its 2003, but alot of what has historically turned-people off to wall street continues. the squeeze that the amex put on isld with the SEC acting a the "enforcer" was particularly distressing, since people were routing to isld to avoid the amex and their little bag of adult toys, and the SEC herded them right back into the slaughterhouse-line/corral (to some extent). the beauty of the ecns is that at least your broker isnt trying to screw you - hell this business is tough enough w/o that.

as for the letters that i have written, i expect canned responses. maybe i should have taken the free trades, but this one just struck me as being too much... it would be like the electric company notifying you that your email bill paying had been disengaged, so the statement for the $300 electric bill would now include a $150 surcharge ($450 total). we'll see, but im not staying up nights worrying about it.