So The question of Batman would have to be answered with an "I don't know for sure at this particular moment" if one is honest with oneself...
Or does one just exempt God on grounds of special pleading at this particular moment ?
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Beck: Good for Jews that Jesus didnt come for payback
- Thread starter hermit
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Or does one just exempt God on grounds of special pleading at this particular moment ?
Quote from stu:
So The question of Batman would have to be answered with an "I don't know for sure at this particular moment" if one is honest with oneself...
Or does one just exempt God on grounds of special pleading at this particular moment ?
Batman is a fictional creation.
However there are those who have had Near Death Experiences who claim to have met with superior beings.
Now whether that is God, or death hallucinations, or something else, it would not be your place to dismiss their experiences.
Unless you claim to be All-Knowing about the subject of God. In which case you are claiming to be a Deity.
Are you elevating yourself to such status? Do you desire worship?
Quote from stu:
In fact -- you are in denial.
Explanations, reasons, quotes, scholars, already provided, mean nothing to you when they don't correspond with what you want to hear.
It is simply plain commonsense that Josephus cannot stand as historical evidence for Jesus . Reasons already given.
There is nothing anywhere to establish Jesus actually existed. No Historical evidence. Nothing anywhere at all.
Obviously you just can't deal with it.
Except for the fact you can't find any scholars who dispute the non TF passage written about Jesus by Josephus.
"The scholarly mainstream not only rejects the myth thesis,[106] but identifies serious methodological deficiencies in the approach.[107] For this reason, many scholars consider engaging proponents of the myth theory a waste of time,[108] comparing it to a professional astronomer having to debate whether the moon is made of cheese.[109] As such, the New Testament scholar James Dunn describes the mythical Jesus theory as a "thoroughly dead thesis".[110]"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------Quote from MarketMasher:
Batman is a fictional creation.
However there are those who have had Near Death Experiences who claim to have met with superior beings.
Now whether that is God, or death hallucinations, or something else, it would not be your place to dismiss their experiences.
Unless you claim to be All-Knowing about the subject of God. In which case you are claiming to be a Deity.
Are you elevating yourself to such status? Do you desire worship?
You can ask if the people that say they met superior beings know what happen to thier physiology.
http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(05)00295-1/abstract
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v419/n6904/full/419269a.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html
"The majority of near-death researchers are interested in the subject because they believe NDEs provide evidence for life after death. Thus near-death researchers generally disregard hallucinatory NDEs while searching for cases of veridical paranormal perception. But at the end of the day, we are left with no compelling evidence that NDErs have actually been able to obtain information from remote locations, and we have clear evidence that NDErs sometimes have false perceptions of the physical world during their experiences."
Quote from trendlover:
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You can ask if the people that say they met superior beings know what happen to thier physiology.
http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(05)00295-1/abstract
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v419/n6904/full/419269a.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html
"The majority of near-death researchers are interested in the subject because they believe NDEs provide evidence for life after death. Thus near-death researchers generally disregard hallucinatory NDEs while searching for cases of veridical paranormal perception. But at the end of the day, we are left with no compelling evidence that NDErs have actually been able to obtain information from remote locations, and we have clear evidence that NDErs sometimes have false perceptions of the physical world during their experiences."
The people who go through NDE's are first-hand witnesses to their own personal experience.
There are certainly parts that will be disputed by third-parties, but these third-parties are not witnesses to the personal events experienced by NDE subjects.
So certainly someone can say "I didn't go through what you went through, I did not experience first-hand what you say you experienced first-hand, BUT, I will tell you exactly what happened."
If you choose to believe the third-party removed, that is of course a free choice. You would be free to argue with the person who actually went through it.
NDE study published in medical journal, The Lancet
http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivio/TheLancet_NDE.htm
During the pilot phase in one of the hospitals, a coronary-care-unit nurse reported a veridical out-of-body experience of a resuscitated patient:
"During a night shift an ambulance brings in a 44-year-old cyanotic, comatose man into the coronary care unit. He had been found about an hour before in a meadow by passers-by. After admission, he receives artificial respiration without intubation, while heart massage and defibrillation are also applied. When we want to intubate the patient, he turns out to have dentures in his mouth. I remove these upper dentures and put them onto the 'crash car'. Meanwhile, we continue extensive CPR. After about an hour and a half the patient has sufficient heart rhythm and blood pressure, but he is still ventilated and intubated, and he is still comatose. He is transferred to the intensive care unit to continue the necessary artificial respiration. Only after more than a week do I meet again with the patient, who is by now back on the cardiac ward. I distribute his medication. The moment he sees me he says: 'Oh, that nurse knows where my dentures are'. I am very surprised. Then he elucidates: 'Yes, you were there when I was brought into hospital and you took my dentures out of my mouth and put them onto that car, it had all these bottles on it and there was this sliding drawer underneath and there you put my teeth.' I was especially amazed because I remembered this happening while the man was in deep coma and in the process of CPR. When I asked further, it appeared the man had seen himself lying in bed, that he had perceived from above how nurses and doctors had been busy with CPR. He was also able to describe correctly and in detail the small room in which he had been resuscitated as well as the appearance of those present like myself. At the time that he observed the situation he had been very much afraid that we would stop CPR and that he would die. And it is true that we had been very negative about the patient's prognosis due to his very poor medical condition when admitted. The patient tells me that he desperately and unsuccessfully tried to make it clear to us that he was still alive and that we should continue CPR. He is deeply impressed by his experience and says he is no longer afraid of death. 4 weeks later he left hospital as a healthy man."
http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivio/TheLancet_NDE.htm
During the pilot phase in one of the hospitals, a coronary-care-unit nurse reported a veridical out-of-body experience of a resuscitated patient:
"During a night shift an ambulance brings in a 44-year-old cyanotic, comatose man into the coronary care unit. He had been found about an hour before in a meadow by passers-by. After admission, he receives artificial respiration without intubation, while heart massage and defibrillation are also applied. When we want to intubate the patient, he turns out to have dentures in his mouth. I remove these upper dentures and put them onto the 'crash car'. Meanwhile, we continue extensive CPR. After about an hour and a half the patient has sufficient heart rhythm and blood pressure, but he is still ventilated and intubated, and he is still comatose. He is transferred to the intensive care unit to continue the necessary artificial respiration. Only after more than a week do I meet again with the patient, who is by now back on the cardiac ward. I distribute his medication. The moment he sees me he says: 'Oh, that nurse knows where my dentures are'. I am very surprised. Then he elucidates: 'Yes, you were there when I was brought into hospital and you took my dentures out of my mouth and put them onto that car, it had all these bottles on it and there was this sliding drawer underneath and there you put my teeth.' I was especially amazed because I remembered this happening while the man was in deep coma and in the process of CPR. When I asked further, it appeared the man had seen himself lying in bed, that he had perceived from above how nurses and doctors had been busy with CPR. He was also able to describe correctly and in detail the small room in which he had been resuscitated as well as the appearance of those present like myself. At the time that he observed the situation he had been very much afraid that we would stop CPR and that he would die. And it is true that we had been very negative about the patient's prognosis due to his very poor medical condition when admitted. The patient tells me that he desperately and unsuccessfully tried to make it clear to us that he was still alive and that we should continue CPR. He is deeply impressed by his experience and says he is no longer afraid of death. 4 weeks later he left hospital as a healthy man."
Quote from jem:
Except for the fact you can't find any scholars who dispute the non TF passage written about Jesus by Josephus.
"The scholarly mainstream not only rejects the myth thesis,[106] but identifies serious methodological deficiencies in the approach.[107] For this reason, many scholars consider engaging proponents of the myth theory a waste of time,[108] comparing it to a professional astronomer having to debate whether the moon is made of cheese.[109] As such, the New Testament scholar James Dunn describes the mythical Jesus theory as a "thoroughly dead thesis".[110]"
The problem here is not a lack of any scholars who dispute the 'non TF passage'. Your problem is a lack of any reasoned argument.
Being in denial, you're only interested in scholars that don't dispute Josephus.
Even YOUR Wiki quote disputes in effect all the text. It states....
- It is often argued that "He was [the] Christ" can only be read as a profession of faith, and Josephus was almost certainly not a Christian, ...... John Dominic Crossan has put it this way:The problem here is that Josephus' account is too good to be true, too confessional to be impartial, too Christian to be Jewish[46].
Consequently, some scholars regard at least certain parts of the Testimonium as later interpolations. In particular three passages stood out[46]:
Consequently whether in TF or any other Josephus 'non TF passage' , "He was [the] Christ" or "...."who was called Christ" or "...the so called Christ" are essentially the same problem for christian apologists
According to a most renowned scholar .... "too good to be true, too confessional to be impartial, too Christian to be Jewish"
Anything by Josephus with the word Christ in it would be "...too Christian.."
There are others who do dispute the text, even more directly. Easy to find them if you look.
But you won't look because you want to call any scholar a "bozo media whore" who doesn't agree with one particular scholar whom you like so much to moronically repeat , whose quote has no argument to make , but who prefers to deal mainly in swiss cheese.
In the end , all you have is your ignorant refusal to accept fact.
Despite all that, Josephus would not in any case be grounds for historical evidence.
It's all 100 years too late and not supported in any other text or by any other means. Therefore mere hearsay innadmissable as historical evidence .
Christian interpolators falsified Josephus text... and now christian apologists can't even decide which to falsify Josephus text further with bewteen "...the Christ" or " ...the so called Christ".
In light of all that you'd have to be a dimwit to blindly assume as you do that Josephus has any historical relevance to a bible Jesus Christ. Ah...that'll be it .
There is nothing whatsoever in the form of any kind of historical evidence, anywhere, any time, throughout the whole of history, to confirm bible Jesus ever existed.
Amazing but true .
Astonishing what relentless religious brainwashing and a lot of superstition can achieve.
Then again all the ignorance you've shown is not really so amazing. It's just pathetic.
Quote from MarketMasher:
Batman is a fictional creation.
However there are those who have had Near Death Experiences who claim to have met with superior beings.
Now whether that is God, or death hallucinations, or something else, it would not be your place to dismiss their experiences.
Unless you claim to be All-Knowing about the subject of God. In which case you are claiming to be a Deity.
Are you elevating yourself to such status? Do you desire worship?
Jesus is a fictional creation.
"But the basic question surely is, doesn't all this primarily equate to one first convincing oneself that Batman actually exists, in order to discuss how his fictional parents died..
Correspondengly one first convinces oneself that God actually exists, in order to discuss how his fictional son, Jesus died?"
Apparently your answer is... yes.
Quote from MarketMasher:[/i
"The moment he sees me he says: 'Oh, that nurse knows where my dentures are'. I am very surprised. Then he elucidates: 'Yes, you were there when I was brought into hospital and you took my dentures out of my mouth and put them onto that car, it had all these bottles on it and there was this sliding drawer underneath and there you put my teeth.' I was especially amazed because I remembered this happening while the man was in deep coma and in the process of CPR."
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More people question (coma) (consciousness) now. For example if the patient is in coma, who really know if what they hear is process and put in the memory? You can have memory and no see something, true? For example I hear the song one time and can sing most of the song.
Maybe he hear all the conversation in the room? Maybe he hear the nurse talk about his dentures, then hear someone tell her put the dentures on this crash car with the bottles on top. Then he hear sounds of sliding draw. All this go to his memory, then this memory make a picture for him?
But to just say it is supernatural is to stop looking for why.
Marketmasher, how is the nurse know the patient (recognize) her from sight sense? Did the pateint hear hear her voice (first), then this recall his memory(of voice) he store when he is in the coma? Maybe smell sense too? Who know really? Maybe he put the memory of her odor chemical in his brain when she is close to him and take his dentures from his mouth? Then when she visit him again in 1 week, this chemical odor trigger the memory?