Be honest American Catholics

[jem]

finally I object to the govt forcing people to provide abortifacients on moral and constitutional grounds.


it does not matter if catholics have sex, or use birth control at sometime in their lives... the point is forcing someone to do something so objectionable.

This is American not the Ussr.
You don't compromise Constitutional rights because it is expedient.

 

[stu]

Quote from jem:
finally I object to the govt forcing people to provide abortifacients on moral and constitutional grounds.

In that case you have no grounds for your objection.

Quote from jem:
it does not matter if catholics have sex, or use birth control at sometime in their lives... the point is forcing someone to do something so objectionable.

I find being forced to pay tax plus any number of other things that society demands of me as objectionable. Such as being forced to let religion off paying tax at all for instance.

Quote from jem:
This is American not the Ussr.
You don't compromise Constitutional rights because it is expedient.

This is America thank goodness, so you get to puke nonsense about Constitutional rights every time you don't like something.



The subject matter is highly emotive on which people have very strong views either way. But calling contraceptives - abortifacients is just adding fuel to the fire.

Contraceptives are not abortifacients. They are generally intended primarily to prevent conception. That's why they are called contraceptives. In your world caffeine can be an abortifacient.

I don't even like the word abortion because of what it means. To my mind the termination of a potential human life is tragedy.

But it is in no way sensible taking the whole question to ridiculous extremes, to deny or restrict sensible and pragmatic government legislation that dramatically prevents the number of terminations and the various serious downsides of associated diseases and costs overall.

 

[jem]

man you are a misleading liar even on this subject..

the intended purpose might be contraceptive but the results can be abortions.

Even the common pill may be an abortificient... there is a debate on the subject discussed at the link. .

http://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Feb/22/growing-debate-about-abortifacient-effect-birth-co/

Both proponents and opponents seem to agree that the risk of an abortifacient effect with intrauterine contraceptive devices (IUDs), the progesterone-only pills (POP), Norplant” (subcutaneously implanted progesterone rods) and “emergency contraception”(sic) or “the morning after pills” are such that, in general, it would be unethical to use or prescribe these products for birth control.1,2,10,11

Quote from stu:

In that case you have no grounds for your objection.


I find being forced to pay tax plus any number of other things that society demands of me as objectionable. Such as being forced to let religion off paying tax at all for instance.


This is America thank goodness, so you get to puke nonsense about Constitutional rights every time you don't like something.



The subject matter is highly emotive on which people have very strong views either way. But calling contraceptives - abortifacients is just adding fuel to the fire.

Contraceptives are not abortifacients. They are generally intended primarily to prevent conception. That's why they are called contraceptives. In your world caffeine can be an abortifacient.

I don't even like the word abortion because of what it means. To my mind the termination of a potential human life is tragedy.

But it is in no way sensible taking the whole question to ridiculous extremes, to deny or restrict sensible and pragmatic government legislation that dramatically prevents the number of terminations and the various serious downsides of associated diseases and costs overall.

 

[jem]

as far as there being a constitutional violation... I would not expect the opinion of a rabid leftist like you to be any different.

Luckily, justice Roberts and the Supreme court may be taking this issue up as we speak. So I will refrain form giving you a lecture about our rights being granted by the Creator and about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[stu]

Quote from jem:
man you are a misleading liar even on this subject..

the intended purpose might be contraceptive but the results can be abortions.

Even the common pill may be an abortificient... there is a debate on the subject discussed at the link. .

http://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Feb/22/growing-debate-about-abortifacient-effect-birth-co/

Both proponents and opponents seem to agree that the risk of an abortifacient effect with intrauterine contraceptive devices (IUDs), the progesterone-only pills (POP), Norplant” (subcutaneously implanted progesterone rods) and “emergency contraception”(sic) or “the morning after pills” are such that, in general, it would be unethical to use or prescribe these products for birth control.1,2,10,11

epm.org ?... are you kidding me!?
"Remember Us and Pray for Us: the Persecuted Church"

That's no debate. It's a mess of misinformation and religiously driven propaganda.

The common pill is a contraceptive intended to avoid conception.
Lots of other common ordinary things may cause an abortion. They are not labeled abortifacient

Talking as if the contraceptive pill is merely an abortifacient is cheap and ignorant.

Still I'd expect little else from you and your kind.

Quote from jem:
as far as there being a constitutional violation... I would not expect the opinion of a rabid leftist like you to be any different.

Luckily, justice Roberts and the Supreme court may be taking this issue up as we speak. So I will refrain form giving you a lecture about our rights being granted by the Creator and about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Yeah good idea. Do yourself and everyone else a favor and don't bother with so your called lecture. It'll only end up showing again how someone so far to the right could've made the Third Reicht wince.

And rights are not something that somebody or something like an imaginary "Creator" gives you. They are something nobody can take away.

Oh and don't forget to start calling Justice Roberts and the Supreme Court a bunch of leftist libtards when they don't support your rubbish ideas.

 

[jem]

typical brainless leftist troll play..lies.
you are such a complete bullshit artist.


go ahead troll look it up, regardless of the website.

IUDs, some forms of the pill and some other forms of birth control can and do causes fertilized eggs to die.... abortions.

only trolls like you who routinely lie about science would deny that some forms of birth control cause abortions.

Quote from stu:

epm.org ?... are you kidding me!?
"Remember Us and Pray for Us: the Persecuted Church"

That's no debate. It's a mess of misinformation and religiously driven propaganda.

The common pill is a contraceptive intended to avoid conception.
Lots of other common ordinary things may cause an abortion. They are not labeled abortifacient

Talking as if the contraceptive pill is merely an abortifacient is cheap and ignorant.

Still I'd expect little else from you and your kind.




Yeah good idea. Do yourself and everyone else a favor and don't bother with so your called lecture. It'll only end up showing again how someone so far to the right could've made the Third Reicht wince.

And rights are not something that somebody or something like an imaginary "Creator" gives you. They are something nobody can take away.

Oh and don't forget to start calling Justice Roberts and the Supreme Court a bunch of leftist libtards when they don't support your rubbish ideas.

 

[stu]

Typical. You can't rationally debate and so resort to the usual name calling.
Too emotionally wound up in all your religious bullshit.

Contraceptives' primary function is to delay ovulation. Not an abortion.

Arbitrarily deciding your own science on religious grounds, isn't science.

Quote from jem:

typical brainless leftist troll play..lies.
you are such a complete bullshit artist.


go ahead troll look it up, regardless of the website.

IUDs, some forms of the pill and some other forms of birth control can and do causes fertilized eggs to die.... abortions.

only trolls like you who routinely lie about science would deny that some forms of birth control cause abortions.

 

[jem]

and I suppose if you shot your rifle with the intent of clearing the chamber (at someone head), it would not be a homicide.

your arguments are troll arguments. you have tried to change the subject to primary function.

Quote from stu:

Typical. You can't rationally debate and so resort to the usual name calling.
Too emotionally wound up in all your religious bullshit.

Contraceptives' primary function is to delay ovulation. Not an abortion.

Arbitrarily deciding your own science on religious grounds, isn't science.

 

[stu]

Quote from jem:
and I suppose if you shot your rifle with the intent of clearing the chamber (at someone head), it would not be a homicide.

...and for nothing more than unrealistic idealism, you want to stop, control and restrict every move someone can make, even before it can be confirmed the bullet is going to hit.

Quote from jem:
your arguments are troll arguments. you have tried to change the subject to primary function.

Because you can't keep up with the argument doesn't mean I changed it.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from jem:


IUDs, some forms of the pill and some other forms of birth control can and do causes fertilized eggs to die.... abortions.

50% of fertilized eggs die naturally. that system was set up by your "creator". it seems obvious that he wasnt too concerned about eggs.

it boils down to this. you have every right to refuse to use contraception. you dont have any right to block other people from using it especially so since you objection is based on nothing more than your irrational fear that some invisible guy in the sky wouldnt approve.