Be careful what you wish for

[CaptainObvious]

I think the Dems will come to regret this healthcare bill, if the oppostion plays it right. The bill has about as much chance of success as the NINJA loans did for the housing market. Free ain't free. So when the long waits come for a lesser quality of care, when the taxes extend far beyond what we're now being told, when the cost goes through the roof, when the corruption and incompetence run rampant...the opposition must make sure the Dems own it, all of it. Fingers must be pointed, I told you so's must be said.
Sadly, this will take years to develop and chance of repeal is about zilch. As Americans we'll have to adjust and manage this mess some how, some way. I believe we will, because it's who we are and what we do. We adapt, overcome and survive.
Accountability starts now. The president said it himself...that's what elections are for. Vote'em out!

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Let's be real for a change, okay?

Bush and company did nothing at all to change the equation, did they?

Why not?

Because the status quo satisfied Bush's real constituents.

Now we have a bill that changes the equation.

Is it the best solution?

Not likely, but it is going to bring forth change.

Everyone admits the current system does not work, health care costs are out of control, the system is broken, and we have a baby boomer generation coming into the most expensive part of life from a health care perspective.

So what is the solution?

Do we go back to 1960's level of medicine?

Do we have classes of medicine determined by what people can afford?

Like automobiles. The poor drive Hyundai cars, the rich drive Mercedes or have a chauffeur.

Why should the poor live longer than the rich, right? Why should the poor be entitled to the same quality of health care as the wealthy?

That really is the argument right? The best health care is an entitlement of wealth, right?

All this talk from the right wing, you know about how important the unborn child is...how it was wrong to allow Terri Schiavo to die...but to suggest that the poor and minorities be taken care of as well as the wealthy during their life, now that is a different matter, right?

So we have tiers of hospitals and medical care. You know, segregation on the basis of what people can afford, right?

The poor go to the back of the health care bus.

The poor and those who can't afford decent medical care...they go to the back of the bus where they practice medicine at the level of development we had in the 1950's.

People get cancer? Shit, let em die because they can't afford the cure.

People get sick, let em die because we can't afford to give them the drugs to keep them alive, right?

Why don't you people just be 100% honest and talk about what you really want...which is a class society on the basis of wealth, where the wealthy get health care, and the poor suffer and die.

That is God's plan right? That those who are good souls will get enough money to have proper health care, and those who are sinners will suffer and die because if God loved them, he would have made them rich, right?

The goddamn right wing claims America has the best health care in the world...and that is right, for those who can afford it.

That's like saying Germany makes the best cars in the world, but most Germans can't afford them...

Please, just be honest for a change, that's a change that I could believe in...

Quote from CaptainObvious:

I think the Dems will come to regret this healthcare bill, if the oppostion plays it right. The bill has about as much chance of success as the NINJA loans did for the housing market. Free ain't free. So when the long waits come for a lesser quality of care, when the taxes extend far beyond what we're now being told, when the cost goes through the roof, when the corruption and incompetence run rampant...the opposition must make sure the Dems own it, all of it. Fingers must be pointed, I told you so's must be said.
Sadly, this will take years to develop and chance of repeal is about zilch. As Americans we'll have to adjust and manage this mess some how, some way. I believe we will, because it's who we are and what we do. We adapt, overcome and survive.
Accountability starts now. The president said it himself...that's what elections are for. Vote'em out!

 

[killthesunshine]

good post 777

 

[walter4]

Awesome post.

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Let's be real for a change, okay?

Bush and company did nothing at all to change the equation, did they?

Why not?

Because the status quo satisfied Bush's real constituents.

Now we have a bill that changes the equation.

Is it the best solution?

Not likely, but it is going to bring forth change.

Everyone admits the current system does not work, health care costs are out of control, the system is broken, and we have a baby boomer generation coming into the most expensive part of life from a health care perspective.

So what is the solution?

Do we go back to 1960's level of medicine?

Do we have classes of medicine determined by what people can afford?

Like automobiles. The poor drive Hyundai cars, the rich drive Mercedes or have a chauffeur.

Why should the poor live longer than the rich, right? Why should the poor be entitled to the same quality of health care as the wealthy?

That really is the argument right? The best health care is an entitlement of wealth, right?

All this talk from the right wing, you know about how important the unborn child is...how it was wrong to allow Terri Schiavo to die...but to suggest that the poor and minorities be taken care of as well as the wealthy during their life, now that is a different matter, right?

So we have tiers of hospitals and medical care. You know, segregation on the basis of what people can afford, right?

The poor go to the back of the health care bus.

The poor and those who can't afford decent medical care...they go to the back of the bus where they practice medicine at the level of development we had in the 1950's.

People get cancer? Shit, let em die because they can't afford the cure.

People get sick, let em die because we can't afford to give them the drugs to keep them alive, right?

Why don't you people just be 100% honest and talk about what you really want...which is a class society on the basis of wealth, where the wealthy get health care, and the poor suffer and die.

That is God's plan right? That those who are good souls will get enough money to have proper health care, and those who are sinners will suffer and die because if God loved them, he would have made them rich, right?

The goddamn right wing claims America has the best health care in the world...and that is right, for those who can afford it.

That's like saying Germany makes the best cars in the world, but most Germans can't afford them...

Please, just be honest for a change, that's a change that I could believe in...

Total crap with no evidence to back it up. You forgot the part about insurance company profits being the reason the poor can't get health care. Of course, that is a lie and a fantasy as well.

The fact is the system works fairly well, but there are a few rough edges that needed changing. Instead, we get this whole massive government take over, based on stealing money from medicare (ie elderly people who vote republican) and using it to subsidize insurance for a vast army of illegal aliens and career welfare recipients who will vote democrat.

From the democrats' standpoint,a brilliant plan. Use the enemies' money to buy votes. From the country's standpoint, a disaster. Why should anyone take responsibility for anything anymore, form your home mortgage, to your job to your health care? Just sit back and let the government take care of you.

I have already had people tell me they will drop their insurance, pocket the premiums and get coverage only if they get sick. They figure paying the penalty is worth it, since they might not need insurance for years. If they do get sick or need somethng expensive, the insurance company has to sell it to them for the same price everyone else has been paying for years.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

The system works fairly well?

Really...

It works well for whom?

That is like the old joke amongst stock brokers...

You remember the joke, right?

"Two out of three people always make money on a stock trade."

"Really, how is that?"

"The broker and the exchange always make money on a trade. Who gives a shit if the customer makes money?"

"I have already had people tell me they will drop their insurance, pocket the premiums and get coverage only if they get sick. They figure paying the penalty is worth it, since they might not need insurance for years. If they do get sick or need somethng expensive, the insurance company has to sell it to them for the same price everyone else has been paying for years."

The people who tell you that are wrong, not surprising you believe it to be true...

You really believe if you get sick and need coverage you can just go and get insurance to cover the condition you are needing insurance for?

Good God, you must be retahhhhhhhded...

Shit, why have any insurance, just buy it after you have something you need it for...

What a dope...what an unbelievable dope...

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Total crap with no evidence to back it up. You forgot the part about insurance company profits being the reason the poor can't get health care. Of course, that is a lie and a fantasy as well.

The fact is the system works fairly well, but there are a few rough edges that needed changing. Instead, we get this whole massive government take over, based on stealing money from medicare (ie elderly people who vote republican) and using it to subsidize insurance for a vast army of illegal aliens and career welfare recipients who will vote democrat.

From the democrats' standpoint,a brilliant plan. Use the enemies' money to buy votes. From the country's standpoint, a disaster. Why should anyone take responsibility for anything anymore, form your home mortgage, to your job to your health care? Just sit back and let the government take care of you.

I have already had people tell me they will drop their insurance, pocket the premiums and get coverage only if they get sick. They figure paying the penalty is worth it, since they might not need insurance for years. If they do get sick or need somethng expensive, the insurance company has to sell it to them for the same price everyone else has been paying for years.

 

[killthesunshine]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Total crap with no evidence to back it up. You forgot the part about insurance company profits being the reason the poor can't get health care. Of course, that is a lie and a fantasy as well.

The fact is the system works fairly well, but there are a few rough edges that needed changing. Instead, we get this whole massive government take over, based on stealing money from medicare (ie elderly people who vote republican) and using it to subsidize insurance for a vast army of illegal aliens and career welfare recipients who will vote democrat.

From the democrats' standpoint,a brilliant plan. Use the enemies' money to buy votes. From the country's standpoint, a disaster. Why should anyone take responsibility for anything anymore, form your home mortgage, to your job to your health care? Just sit back and let the government take care of you.

I have already had people tell me they will drop their insurance, pocket the premiums and get coverage only if they get sick. They figure paying the penalty is worth it, since they might not need insurance for years. If they do get sick or need somethng expensive, the insurance company has to sell it to them for the same price everyone else has been paying for years.

how come you never talked about any "rough edges" in health insurance that needed planing before now?

your post is a morass of incoherence

smacks of extreme bitterness for some reason

 

[Ivanovich]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Let's be real for a change, okay?

Bush and company did nothing at all to change the equation, did they?

Why not?

Because the status quo satisfied Bush's real constituents.

Now we have a bill that changes the equation.

Is it the best solution?

Not likely, but it is going to bring forth change.

Everyone admits the current system does not work, health care costs are out of control, the system is broken, and we have a baby boomer generation coming into the most expensive part of life from a health care perspective.

So what is the solution?

Do we go back to 1960's level of medicine?

Do we have classes of medicine determined by what people can afford?

Like automobiles. The poor drive Hyundai cars, the rich drive Mercedes or have a chauffeur.

Why should the poor live longer than the rich, right? Why should the poor be entitled to the same quality of health care as the wealthy?

That really is the argument right? The best health care is an entitlement of wealth, right?

All this talk from the right wing, you know about how important the unborn child is...how it was wrong to allow Terri Schiavo to die...but to suggest that the poor and minorities be taken care of as well as the wealthy during their life, now that is a different matter, right?

So we have tiers of hospitals and medical care. You know, segregation on the basis of what people can afford, right?

The poor go to the back of the health care bus.

The poor and those who can't afford decent medical care...they go to the back of the bus where they practice medicine at the level of development we had in the 1950's.

People get cancer? Shit, let em die because they can't afford the cure.

People get sick, let em die because we can't afford to give them the drugs to keep them alive, right?

Why don't you people just be 100% honest and talk about what you really want...which is a class society on the basis of wealth, where the wealthy get health care, and the poor suffer and die.

That is God's plan right? That those who are good souls will get enough money to have proper health care, and those who are sinners will suffer and die because if God loved them, he would have made them rich, right?

The goddamn right wing claims America has the best health care in the world...and that is right, for those who can afford it.

That's like saying Germany makes the best cars in the world, but most Germans can't afford them...

Please, just be honest for a change, that's a change that I could believe in...

This is a good post, and I agree with much of it. Health care needed to be changed - still does, actually. I don't think anyone argued that it didn't need to be changed, did they?

The process in which this particular bill went through is what primarily disgusts me with the democrats. Also is why I won't vote Obama this time around (and I regret doing it last time).

Lastly, and by no means least, the Federal Government does not possess the right to force Americans to purchase healthcare if they CHOOSE not to do so for themselves. That is my major beef with the bill itself.

Your argument, well intended as it was, does not address that key point.

Other than taxes, which is not a purchase of something, what else has the Federal Government required it's citizens to purchase before? In the history of the US? Anyone?

 

[sameeh55]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Let's be real for a change, okay?

Bush and company did nothing at all to change the equation, did they?

Why not?

Because the status quo satisfied Bush's real constituents.

Now we have a bill that changes the equation.

Is it the best solution?

Not likely, but it is going to bring forth change.

Everyone admits the current system does not work, health care costs are out of control, the system is broken, and we have a baby boomer generation coming into the most expensive part of life from a health care perspective.

So what is the solution?

Do we go back to 1960's level of medicine?

Do we have classes of medicine determined by what people can afford?

Like automobiles. The poor drive Hyundai cars, the rich drive Mercedes or have a chauffeur.

Why should the poor live longer than the rich, right? Why should the poor be entitled to the same quality of health care as the wealthy?

That really is the argument right? The best health care is an entitlement of wealth, right?

All this talk from the right wing, you know about how important the unborn child is...how it was wrong to allow Terri Schiavo to die...but to suggest that the poor and minorities be taken care of as well as the wealthy during their life, now that is a different matter, right?

So we have tiers of hospitals and medical care. You know, segregation on the basis of what people can afford, right?

The poor go to the back of the health care bus.

The poor and those who can't afford decent medical care...they go to the back of the bus where they practice medicine at the level of development we had in the 1950's.

People get cancer? Shit, let em die because they can't afford the cure.

People get sick, let em die because we can't afford to give them the drugs to keep them alive, right?

Why don't you people just be 100% honest and talk about what you really want...which is a class society on the basis of wealth, where the wealthy get health care, and the poor suffer and die.

That is God's plan right? That those who are good souls will get enough money to have proper health care, and those who are sinners will suffer and die because if God loved them, he would have made them rich, right?

The goddamn right wing claims America has the best health care in the world...and that is right, for those who can afford it.

That's like saying Germany makes the best cars in the world, but most Germans can't afford them...

Please, just be honest for a change, that's a change that I could believe in...

You are 100% right Optional. The hypocrisy of the right has no limits

 

[CaptainObvious]

Quote from killthesunshine:

good post 777

Great post? Does nothing to address the issue of how it all get's paid for. Typical radical leftist rant advocating equality through lowering the standards for everyone. It's a race to the bottom where mediocrity reigns supreme. Minority can't pass the test...make the test easier and grade on a curve. Johnny and his team mates suck, doesn't matter, everyone gets a trophy. Can't afford a home, just give em' a loan anyway. Worked out well, eh? Corporate America gambles the money away, bail them out, with a bonus to boot.
And then there's that whole honesty issue. Well, well, well, let's talk about honesty. Is this health care bill honest? Are we being told the truth about how it's paid for? Who it covers? What it covers? Not a chance. It's all smoke and mirrors, government math at it's worst.
We all agree there's a problem and only a fool believes government is the answer.