Baruch's thread closed - this sucks
- Thread starter mgkrebs
- Start date
- Status
Baron
ET Founder
It's important to emphasize that we are talking about a Journal thread.
I don't have a problem with someone discussing any non-sponsoring firm as long as that thread is not being participated in by a representative of the firm being discussed, and as long as the discussion is taking place in the appropriate forum and thread. Obviously we wouldn't have the Retail Firms forum, the Pro Firms forum, and the broker ratings system if we didn't want people to discuss firms of all types, whether those firms are sponsors or not..
With that said, Magna (who I stand behind 100%) is the moderator of the Journals forum, and Journals are not the appropriate venue for carrying on lengthy discussions about brokerage firms, especially those that do not support our site. The core problem is that off-topic discussions about brokerage firms in a popular thread like Baruch's often cause a lot of subsequent questions from newbies, which creates even more off-topic discussion, which ultimately ends up diluting the focus of the thread. And when the thread starts going in too many directions, people lose interest and we start getting complaints.
Also, if the off-topic discussion continues for a few days, word of it gets back to the company being discussed, and they get their own people to start participating in the thread by posting special offers, phone numbers, links to their website, solicitations, etc. all for the sake of "helping traders" or "answering questions". This not only screws up the journal, but it also causes major problems for us on the administrative side because our boards are not to be used for promotional purposes by representatives of non-sponsors in the first place. So to keep the quality of the journal high, and prevent the situation from snowballing, Magna identified the problem at its beginning stages to prevent us from having to deal with a much bigger headache later on.
If you read Baruch's original post, you'll see that the intent of the thread, as it should be, is to post and discuss actual trading results as they relate to his forex trading system. The thread continues for hundreds of pages until it starts getting into an off-topic discussion about non-sponsor firms, so Magna stepped in and asked for that to stop.
So let me be clear: If you want to post and discuss your daily signals and/or trades, start a journal. There are plenty of examples of these types of journals going on as we speak. If you want to talk about a certain broker, start a thread in one of the broker forums we have on this site. That's what those areas were created for. But please do not use a Journal as a catch-all thread for carrying on off-topic discussions of any variety, especially discussions related to firms that are not sponsors. Doing so undermines the purpose of a Journal to begin with and ultimately ends up causing us way more moderation and administration work than should be necessary.
Finally, I just want to reiterate that we did not forcefully close the thread. Baruch requested that we close it because he feels the rules are unfair, which is unfortunate for everybody.
I don't have a problem with someone discussing any non-sponsoring firm as long as that thread is not being participated in by a representative of the firm being discussed, and as long as the discussion is taking place in the appropriate forum and thread. Obviously we wouldn't have the Retail Firms forum, the Pro Firms forum, and the broker ratings system if we didn't want people to discuss firms of all types, whether those firms are sponsors or not..
With that said, Magna (who I stand behind 100%) is the moderator of the Journals forum, and Journals are not the appropriate venue for carrying on lengthy discussions about brokerage firms, especially those that do not support our site. The core problem is that off-topic discussions about brokerage firms in a popular thread like Baruch's often cause a lot of subsequent questions from newbies, which creates even more off-topic discussion, which ultimately ends up diluting the focus of the thread. And when the thread starts going in too many directions, people lose interest and we start getting complaints.
Also, if the off-topic discussion continues for a few days, word of it gets back to the company being discussed, and they get their own people to start participating in the thread by posting special offers, phone numbers, links to their website, solicitations, etc. all for the sake of "helping traders" or "answering questions". This not only screws up the journal, but it also causes major problems for us on the administrative side because our boards are not to be used for promotional purposes by representatives of non-sponsors in the first place. So to keep the quality of the journal high, and prevent the situation from snowballing, Magna identified the problem at its beginning stages to prevent us from having to deal with a much bigger headache later on.
If you read Baruch's original post, you'll see that the intent of the thread, as it should be, is to post and discuss actual trading results as they relate to his forex trading system. The thread continues for hundreds of pages until it starts getting into an off-topic discussion about non-sponsor firms, so Magna stepped in and asked for that to stop.
So let me be clear: If you want to post and discuss your daily signals and/or trades, start a journal. There are plenty of examples of these types of journals going on as we speak. If you want to talk about a certain broker, start a thread in one of the broker forums we have on this site. That's what those areas were created for. But please do not use a Journal as a catch-all thread for carrying on off-topic discussions of any variety, especially discussions related to firms that are not sponsors. Doing so undermines the purpose of a Journal to begin with and ultimately ends up causing us way more moderation and administration work than should be necessary.
Finally, I just want to reiterate that we did not forcefully close the thread. Baruch requested that we close it because he feels the rules are unfair, which is unfortunate for everybody.
I think Baron is stating my understanding; however every thread drifts a little.
As for Magna cutting it off before it got out of hand; bad decision.
Regarding Baron standing behind Magna, the only thing to do.
Traders are by nature individualistic, a little off, and very touchy; I have 60 of them, and that gives me a lot of experience with those traits.
If you keep handling guests like that you soon will be left with only amateurs ...
I appreciate Baron's clarification regarding Elitetrader's posting guidelines. Clearing up the confusion surrounding posting policies and procedures should go a long way toward eliminating a repeat situation in the future.
In this instance, Baron standing behind one of his moderators definitely is the right course of action. Magna appears simply to have been enforcing the rules as he interpreted them. He acted not out of malice, rather, out of a sense of obligation. Support from the web site administrator is exactly what Magna should have expected and deserved.
The closing of the thread is an entirely different matter. While it is true Baruch requested the thread closed after deciding which of two choices he should make, according to Baron's post, a THIRD choice should have been available to Baruch, but was not. Baruch should have been available to 'spin-off' the portion of his Journal Thread pertaining to the use of a certain broker to another forum or section of the web site. I believe if the above clarification of Elitetrader's policies had been presented to Baruch, we may not find ourselves in a position of losing another valuable asset at ET.
We all can recount many helpful posters past and present who for one reason or another left ET on their own, or found themselves banished, out of disagreement with the policies of this web site. Many contributed significantly to the quality of Elitetrader. It would be a shame to lose another simply as a result of a misunderstanding or misinterpretation.
While I agree that no one individual should be more important than the organization. One should work to retain those members who have contributed so significantly to the quality of Elitetrader. As a result, I urge all parties involved to seek an equitable solution to the problem - one that permits the retention of a high quality member, and allows for understanding of the current interpretation of policies and procedures.
I hope the resulting solution benefits all involved.
-Spydertrader
In this instance, Baron standing behind one of his moderators definitely is the right course of action. Magna appears simply to have been enforcing the rules as he interpreted them. He acted not out of malice, rather, out of a sense of obligation. Support from the web site administrator is exactly what Magna should have expected and deserved.
The closing of the thread is an entirely different matter. While it is true Baruch requested the thread closed after deciding which of two choices he should make, according to Baron's post, a THIRD choice should have been available to Baruch, but was not. Baruch should have been available to 'spin-off' the portion of his Journal Thread pertaining to the use of a certain broker to another forum or section of the web site. I believe if the above clarification of Elitetrader's policies had been presented to Baruch, we may not find ourselves in a position of losing another valuable asset at ET.
We all can recount many helpful posters past and present who for one reason or another left ET on their own, or found themselves banished, out of disagreement with the policies of this web site. Many contributed significantly to the quality of Elitetrader. It would be a shame to lose another simply as a result of a misunderstanding or misinterpretation.
While I agree that no one individual should be more important than the organization. One should work to retain those members who have contributed so significantly to the quality of Elitetrader. As a result, I urge all parties involved to seek an equitable solution to the problem - one that permits the retention of a high quality member, and allows for understanding of the current interpretation of policies and procedures.
I hope the resulting solution benefits all involved.
-Spydertrader
The problem with this situation is that there are to many egos involved and it has turned into a pissing match!
Why don't you just let Baruch start a new thread and let the old water pass under the bridge...
The fact that their is so much uproar should show you that this was one of the best threads on Elite Trader.
As far as this thread drifting off point.... It may have from time to time but it was the most mature discussion that I have read on this site... Unlike many of the childish rants I have seen here.
Why don't you just let Baruch start a new thread and let the old water pass under the bridge...
The fact that their is so much uproar should show you that this was one of the best threads on Elite Trader.
As far as this thread drifting off point.... It may have from time to time but it was the most mature discussion that I have read on this site... Unlike many of the childish rants I have seen here.
I don't think anyone (except Baruch) is keeping him from starting a new thread.
Metoox has some wisdom and has nailed many points with few words. I worry about his points and strikes a "thats true" chord in my heart. The likes of him, Acrary, Quah and others have earned my respect, even though I have never met them and probably never will.
ET is not Yahoo because of the active moderation IMHO.
Baruch, I think you are cutting off your nose to spite your own face. I have had threads closed because of ME and ET was right. Don't take all of this so personal and seriously. Baruch you came here and took us by firestorm and left so quickly, almost like you were on a mission.
To be a stable longstanding member requires a mission of helping traders and getting help from traders. Associating with and discussing our trading life is so fulfilling with the right people with the right attitudes. Baron and Magna must somehow judge and balance this which lays them open for criticism. You can't please all the people all the time.
This particularly is troubling as I just start trading FX and would need Baruchs help from time to time.
Please Baruch, set your Ego aside and come back. At least change your name if you must. But I will need your help and contribution here no matter what your name is. This is my loss too!
Michael B.
ET is not Yahoo because of the active moderation IMHO.
Baruch, I think you are cutting off your nose to spite your own face. I have had threads closed because of ME and ET was right. Don't take all of this so personal and seriously. Baruch you came here and took us by firestorm and left so quickly, almost like you were on a mission.
To be a stable longstanding member requires a mission of helping traders and getting help from traders. Associating with and discussing our trading life is so fulfilling with the right people with the right attitudes. Baron and Magna must somehow judge and balance this which lays them open for criticism. You can't please all the people all the time.
This particularly is troubling as I just start trading FX and would need Baruchs help from time to time.
Please Baruch, set your Ego aside and come back. At least change your name if you must. But I will need your help and contribution here no matter what your name is. This is my loss too!
Michael B.
- Status