Baron - Is Nazism a fun joke for you and ET?

[Sirtatocar]

Quote from dddooo:

As the Holocaust is considered by historians to be one of the most documented events in recent history, these views are not accepted as credible, with organizations such as the American Historical Association stating that Holocaust denial is "at best, a form of academic fraud."[102] Public espousal of Holocaust denial is a crime in several countries, including Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Israel, Italy, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Switzerland. See Laws against Holocaust denial for details.

Gordon McFee writes: "Revisionists depart from the conclusion that the Holocaust did not occur and work backwards through the facts to adapt them to that preordained conclusion. Put another way, they reverse the proper methodology ... thus turning the proper historical method of investigation and analysis on its head."[103] Public Opinion Quarterly summarized that: "No reputable historian questions the reality of the Holocaust, and those promoting Holocaust denial are overwhelmingly anti-Semites and/or neo-Nazis."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

Wikipedia appears to have been started by two Jewish kids, one is a programmer, and the other an 'Adult Site' operator. It's dynamic success (800,000 pages) stems from 10,000 + individual contributors.

Wikipedians will concentrate on a certain subject, and actively moderate any new replies. Once an individual edits an article, his ISP number is recorded, and he is assigned someone who will monitor all his future writings.

Individual contributors are assigned a tracking page, and an open record of all writings. Through out the cycle the contributor this will be monitored by Hillel, ADL, SPLC, type control agents.

Wikipedia's cl.. ~ 'We are an internet encyclopedia with a neutral stance' ~ is absurd.

The whole thing is an attempt to control student research on the Internet. Any subject Googled will show Wikipedia as one of the first entries. Type in the word Bolshevik, and the first entry is Wikipedia. Explore their version, and you won't find the slightest mention that the movement was a Jewish Zionist instigated bloodbath, that was responsible for 20,000,000 deaths.

Dr. Toben is German historian and scholar, who grew up in Australia, and runs the Adelaide Institue. He is noted for his investigation of the 'Jewish Holocaust'. Wikipedia contributors wrote a slanderous page on him, and when he went to refute it, the "wiki-sayanims" deleted all his comments.


Dr. Fredrick Toben's comments that were deleted:

NOTE: The following is written by Holocaust believers who unashamedly propagate and disseminate their brand of German hatred.

Holocaust believers:

1. are either ignorant of the historical facts, or they are outright liars;

2. are control freaks, haters, bigots and obsessed with inflicting legal persecution upon anyone who refuses to believe in their Holocaust story;

3. do not grant anyone who refuses to accept their orthodox version of events a right-of-reply, thereby not according them Natural Justice. Any means to retain control of the narrative is justified - they gossip about those who think independently;

4. use the following words to stifle open debate on things Holocaust: hater, Holocaust denier, antisemite, racist, neo-Nazi, xenophobe;

5. also enjoy pointing out legal actions taken against dissident thinkers who refuse to believe in the Holocaust, but never mention the judicial corruption involved. The most recent cases involved Ernst Zündel's and Germar Rudolf's deportation from the USA to Germany.

6. begin their story with a factual point, then elaborate, exaggerate, distort, then outright lie - see Arthur Butz: The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, concluding chapter.

I believe that's telling. Any site that allows uneducated anonymous thugs to attack people, without allowing them to respond, should not be taken seriously.

 

[arealpissedgoy]

If the Holohoax had happened, there would be no need to silence the critics.




http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2317216,00.html

Germany is using its six-month European Union presidency to push for EU-wide criminalization of Holocaust denial. But where does that leave freedom of speech?


To its long list of ambitious goals as EU president, Germany recently added a controversial one that is set to spark debate across Europe about whether governments can uphold freedom of expression on one hand and outlaw certain viewpoints at the same time.

German Justice Minister Brigitte Zypries said she would like to see Holocaust denial -- already a crime in some European countries -- become punishable by up to three years in prison in all 27 of the bloc's member states.

 

[dddooo]

Quote from arealpissedgoy:

If the Holohoax had happened, there would be no need to silence the critics...Germany is using its six-month European Union presidency to push for EU-wide criminalization of Holocaust denial. But where does that leave freedom of speech?

Freedom of speech is not absolute and does not apply to certain situations. Societies have every right to and do ban certain manifestations of freedom of speech they find particularly dangerous or hateful - like "no dogs and jews/blacks allowed" signs etc. If the EU knowing full well that all Holocaust denial advocates are anti-semites and neo-nazis wants to equate Holocaust denial to hate crime and keep their antisemitic scum in jail - it's their prerogative.

It's certainly debatable whether these laws are the right thing to do but your ability to reach logical conclusions is staggering - if something is banned, it must be a [Europe-wide] coverup. Then again no one expects the KKK types like you to have a brain.

 

[Sirtatocar]

Quote from dddooo:

If the EU knowing full well that all Holocaust denial advocates are anti-semites and neo-nazis

5 well-known Jewish Holocaust revisionists. All of whom have done A LOT of questioning the official story:
David Cole
Michael Hoffman II
Alexander Baron
Benjamin H Freedman (Versailles attendant)
Dr. Henry Makow

How do you explain that, apperantly, Jewish revisionists have done a large percentage of the debunking of the alleged Holocast?

 

[dddooo]

Quote from Sirtatocar:

5 well-known Jewish Holocaust revisionists. All of whom have done A LOT of questioning the official story:
David Cole
Michael Hoffman II
Alexander Baron
Benjamin H Freedman (Versailles attendant)
Dr. Henry Makow

How do you explain that, apperantly, Jewish revisionists have done a large percentage of the debunking of the alleged Holocast?

I took a look at the links you provided. Alexander Baron's and Michael Hofman's websites have no informatin about the Holocaust whatsoever, just a list of books they wrote. Michael Hofman's website does not even mention "Holocaust". Benjamin H. Freedman does not mention the word "Holocaust" in his entire speech either.

And here is what Dr. Henry Makow had to say about Holocaust deniers:
"Zundel's website claims only one million Jews were murdered, there were no gas chambers, and Hitler didn't intend genocide. Zundel's claims are repugnant, but he has a right to be wrong."

Hmm, Some Holocaust deniers these "5 well-known jewish revisionists" are. BTW you may be surprised but they are well-known to you and your neo-Nazi/KKK buddies only, they are not well-known to anyone else. They are not scientists, they are not historians, in other word they are complete nobodies.

And oh yeah, lest I forget, David Cole has a video of a pool and a piano in Aushwitz as if anyone ever disputed that German guards enjoyed swimming and playing piano.

The more you post the more you show what kind of idiots you people are.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

I am real curious to know if there were only 3 million people exterminated by the Germans, if that would make them a better people, than say exterminating 6 million? What about 2 million? What about only million? Does that make them nicer? If they killed less than Stalin, does that make them not as "evil?"

I do suspect that the Jews have exaggerated to a greater or lesser extent, and I do think they have applied whatever number or whatever happened to manipulate the psychology of Americans in their favor.

Have we seen the American Indians get the same type of leverage here that the Jews get out of the Holocaust?

Nope.

Why is that? Is it because Americans did the dirty deed, and don't really want to look at their own soiled past? Is it because we like to demonize others, i.e. the Nazis (or now the Muslims--or the only good Indian is a dead Indian, etc.)

Really, at this point, it doesn't matter. Even if the extermination of Jews didn't happen, so what?

Would that make pro Israel policy wrong?

The majority of people are just stupid, irrational, and do not think logically or in real time. People who understand this, who are in power manipulate the sheeple to play upon fear, guilt, etc. for the sake of control. They buy whatever is being sold to them, just like they bought into Saddam and WMD.

No doubt some people hate Jews. No doubt some Jews hate Muslims. No doubt some Muslims hate Americans.

The operative word is hate...

What I observe is the typical action reaction. Those who don't believe in the Holocaust as described, put up their argument. The Holocaust defenders are reactive, which keeps the cycle of hatred alive.

My guess? The Nazis were an extremely nationalistic group, based on what Hitler wrote and what has been recorded. The Nazis utilized a convenient scape goat as a method to get the German people to rally together against a common enemy, the same way Americans and nearly every other culture has done in the past.

Do I know how many were Jews were killed?

Nope. Does it matter what I believe? Nope. Does it matter what politicians and leaders do today...here in America, in Israel, in Saudi Arabia, in Iran?

Yep, you bet.

What I observe, which is common here at ET, is fanatical hate on one side, and fanatical hate on the other side...rationalized of course by both sides.

Fanaticism is the real enemy, and the enemy is alive and well...

 

[Sirtatocar]

Quote from dddooo:

I took a look at the links you provided. Alexander Baron's and Michael Hofman's websites have zero informatin whatsoever, just a list of books they wrote.

Baron is propably the most left wing revisionist out there. He isn't a fan of right wing types such as Irving, but has published several books exposing the Holocaust.

Michael Hofman's website does not even mention "Holocaust".

Hoffman is the author of "The Great Holocaust Trial," an account of Zündel's courtroom ordeal in Toronto in 1985, which is certainly an important revisionist book.

According to your own Judeopedia:

Hoffman doubts that execution gas chambers existed in the Nazi camp Auschwitz-Birkenau, and claims that the term "Holocaust" is Orwellian Newspeak [7] imposed beginning circa 1978 in order to confuse and distract from debates about the numbers of Jewish deaths that can be attributed to Nazis. Hoffman doubts that six million Jews were killed by the Nazis and asserts that most of the Jewish deaths in WWII were from typhus, malnutrition and shootings perpetrated by some units of the SS on the Eastern front.

Hoffman differs from other World War II revisionists in believing that Hitler did indeed have as a goal, at least philosophically, the extermination (ausrottung) of the Jewish people, but Hoffman also argues that the primary means of extermination -- the execution gas chambers of Auschwitz -- have not been scientifically proved to have existed or been operable, and that "eyewitness" testimony failed under cross-examination at the 1985 "Great Holocaust Trial" of Ernst Zündel in Toronto.

Hoffman points to German eyewitnesses such as Thies Christophersen who maintained there were no execution gas chambers in Auschwitz. Hoffman has been influenced by the research of Charles D. Provan, Carlo Mattogno, Germar Rudolf [8] and Brian Renk.

Hoffman rejects the label "Holocaust denier," and argues[9] that the label is applied unfairly, and with an emotional rather than empirical basis, to those who research controversial issues related to WWII and Judiasm -- according to Hoffman, applying the same partisan logic, those who doubt the Roman Catholic dogma of the Immaculate Conception would be stigmatized by journalists and academics as "Immaculate Conception deniers."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_A._Hoffman_II#Views_on_the_Holocaust

Benjamin H. Freedman does not mention the word "Holocaust" in his entire speech either.

Maybe, but that was because the Holocaust wasn't as well known at that time as it is today. Freedman came as close to a revisionist as one could have at that time. He attempted, quite succesfully, to refute the allegation that Germanys anti-Semitism was racial instead of political. - An important part of the Holocaust story.

And here is what Dr. Henry Makow had to say about Holocaust deniers:
"Zundel's website claims only one million Jews were murdered, there were no gas chambers, and Hitler didn't intend genocide. Zundel's claims are repugnant, but he has a right to be wrong."

OK, you get that one.

Hmm, Some Holocaust deniers these "5 well-known jewish revisionists" are. BTW you may be surprised but they are well-known to you and your neo-Nazi/KKK buddies only, they are not well-known to anyone else. They are not scientists, they are not historians, in other word they are complete nobodies.

That they are not well known is due to the immense Jewish control in the media and in the government. They are simply not going to get the attention they deserve, which is unfortunate as they should be more commonly known.

And oh yeah, lest I forget, David Cole has a video of a pool and a piano in Aushwitz as if anyone ever disputed that German guards enjoyed swimming and playing piano.

David Cole proved that the "gas chamber" at Auschwitz was a Soviet reconstruction.

 

[dddooo]

Quote from Sirtatocar:

David Cole proved that the "gas chamber" at Auschwitz was a Soviet reconstruction.

The gas chambers of Birkenau [Auschwitz extermination camp] were blown up by the SS in November 1944 in an attempt to hide their crimes from the advancing Soviet troops. On January 17, 1945 Nazi personnel started to evacuate the facility; most of the prisoners were forced on a death march West. Those too weak or sick to walk were left behind; about 7,500 prisoners were liberated by the 322nd Infantry unit of the Red Army on January 27 1945.
...
Nazi Rudolf Hoess said that between 2.5 and 3 million had been killed, while Adolf Eichmann gave a figure of 2 million
...
in 1983, French scholar George Wellers was one of the first to use Nazi data on deportations to estimate the number killed at Auschwitz, arriving at 1.613 million dead, including 1.44 million Jews and 146,000 Catholic Poles. A larger study started around the same time by Franciszek Piper used time tables of train arrivals combined with deportation records to calculate 1.1 million Jewish deaths and 140,000-150,000 Catholic Polish victims, along with 23,000 Roma & Sinti (Gypsies). This number has met with "significant, though not complete" agreement among scholars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz

 

[arealpissedgoy]

Quote from dddooo:

Freedom of speech is not absolute and does not apply to certain situations. Societies have every right to and do ban certain manifestations of freedom of speech they find particularly dangerous or hateful - like "no dogs and jews/blacks allowed" signs etc.

You're comparing apples to oranges. One is a purely academic pursuit and the example you provide is blatantly discriminatory.

Proof that the holohoax never happened does not translate to inciting violence or exclusionary practices against Zionists as you are alleging. But then again Zionists are fundamentalist creatures, so I can assume anything or anyone who debunks your views is to be labeled and jailed.

As a point of interest, it's Zionists who actively espouse violence against others and get away with active hate crimes. One can easily come to that conclusion by reading their posts on ET. Based on the numerous posts made by the bruto individual who started this thread, it is clear he is a Zionist racist hate monger who actively wishes to participate in causing bodily harm against others. Unlike the likes of an active racist like bruto and the other Zionists on ET, holohoax debunkers are pursuing a purely academic interest.

Quote from dddooo:

If the EU knowing full well that all Holocaust denial advocates are anti-semites and neo-nazis wants to equate Holocaust denial to hate crime and keep their antiemetic scum in jail - it's their prerogative.

Another stretch of your imagination. These leaders are all zionist puppets and need to be changed. They have no qualms sending Billions upon Billions to Zionists yet provide inadequate services to their own citizens. All the more imperative the holohoax myth is debunked so the voters don't feel "guilty" kicking these thugs out of office.

Quote from dddooo:

It's certainly debatable whether these laws are the right thing to do but your ability to reach logical conclusions is staggering - if something is banned, it must be a [Europe-wide] coverup. Then again no one expects the KKK types like you to have a brain.

Here you go again espousing your alleged "superiority" over others. Name calling won't get you anywhere, the truth is slowing getting out to the voting public.

 

[dddooo]

Quote from arealpissedgoy:

Name calling won't get you anywhere,

Oy vei, look who's sensitive here. A neo-nazi with thin skin. LOL, if you call yourself PissedGoy immediately exposing your antisemitism - get ready to take some heat, insulting scum like you is fair game. Not that I would piss on you if you were on fire.

As far as the rest of your post is concerned, I am not interested in debating the EU decision to prosecute Holocaust deniers, there are obviously arguments in favor and against it. The point I was making was that they have their reasons to do it and it does not amount to a Europe-wide cover-up as you seem to believe.