Barack Obama Wants Your Money As You Tumble From The Fiscal Cliff

[logic_man]

Quote from piezoe:

It is rather obvious, isn't it?, that the U.S. is attempting the Keynesian method of extracting the country from a very deep recession. Ultimately I would guess the success or failure of this will depend on whether enough new jobs in other industries and other pursuits can be created to replace those jobs that are never coming back. That's a tall order, but this appears to be the direction that the Obama administration is trying to take.

An alternative is the so called austerity approach, where you bite the bullet, tighten the belt, throw the country into depression and deflation and wait for the storm to pass. But we are already too far down the road we have chosen to turn back, in my opinion. And in any case I think we chose the correct road.

Obama has disappointed me greatly on some Bill of Rights issues, but overall he is leading the country in the right direction against a strong Republican headwind. The Grover Norquist solicited pledge has clearly been one of the damaging political moves in our nation's history. I don't know if the damage can be undone, but it seems there is hope that it can be.

No one wants higher taxes. But no one wants the streets filled with the destitute either. If we are going to move forward and restore the country to full employment it's going to require re-building an American middle class. Initiating this process will require Federal spending. Practically speaking, if unacceptable damage to the nations social fabric is to be avoided, that money has only very limited sources, the two most obvious being DOD and expiration of the Bush era tax cuts in the upper brackets. (But there are a few other reasonable sources as well. And of course borrowing and monetizing of the debt is a last resort, or should be. In times of crisis, such borrowing is unavoidable, but it can never be a permanent solution to economic problems.) I applaud the Obama administration for recognizing these cold, hard facts.

The Republicans are refusing to recognize the obvious and denying reality. What choice have we other than to re-elect the present administration?

It is a matter of priorities. It's a matter of necessity.

Honestly, I don't even have the energy to begin to debunk the amount of strawmen and false choices, along with the pseudo-fatalistic invocations of "necessity" in this bilge. Suffice it to say that posts and sentiments like yours are "Exhibit A" in my hypothesis that this country cannot continue as a single political entity. So, thanks for helping me demonstrate that. If the first Civil War was fought over the enslaving of one man to another, the second will be fought over the enslaving of a man to the State.

If Obama gets re-elected, you can pretty much be guaranteed that the GOP will fight his (and your) agenda for the following four years with as much gusto as they've done the past two. So, expect stalemate.

If the thought of that irks you, tough sh!t.

 

[IeatGoldmanSnax]

I'm surprised this is such an active thread. Considering the number of guys on this site who clearly cannot trade, you'd think they'd be more worried about figuring out how to extract money from the market than worrying themselves to death about politics.

 

[zboy2854A]

Quote from logic_man:


If Obama gets re-elected, you can pretty much be guaranteed that the GOP will fight his (and your) agenda for the following four years with as much gusto as they've done the past two. So, expect stalemate.

This is exactly what will happen. As long as the GOP retains control of the House (they will), Obama is boxed in. The only stuff he has been able to do was either done in his first two years with a Democratic Congress (Obamacare), or simply the expiration of existing policy that requires no new legislation (Bush tax cuts).

Therefore, even with an Obama re-election, most of the damage he can do has already been done vis a vis Obamacare and tax increases. Unless of course the Democrats retake the House in the next midterms, in which case, start asking who is John Galt.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from logic_man:

Honestly, I don't even have the energy to begin to debunk the amount of strawmen and false choices, along with the pseudo-fatalistic invocations of "necessity" in this bilge. Suffice it to say that posts and sentiments like yours are "Exhibit A" in my hypothesis that this country cannot continue as a single political entity. So, thanks for helping me demonstrate that. If the first Civil War was fought over the enslaving of one man to another, the second will be fought over the enslaving of a man to the State.

If Obama gets re-elected, you can pretty much be guaranteed that the GOP will fight his (and your) agenda for the following four years with as much gusto as they've done the past two. So, expect stalemate.

If the thought of that irks you, tough sh!t.

you can always tell on TV who is a democrat because they always seem to be concerned that nothing is getting done. I don't know what it is they want done so bad, but they can't conceive of even four years where nothing gets done and just peacefully stays the same. I guess that's why they call themselves progressive, because they always want change.

Even if you are a stalwart conservative who always wants things to be the same as they were when you were growing up, there is no stopping change. It's not like you have to do anything to encourage it. You can't stop it even if you wanted to.

Didn't they already cover all this in "Fiddler on the Roof"?

The first kid I ever met in high school that was politically active had this chip on his shoulder thinking somehow he was not getting what he deserved. The rest of us were all too busy getting what we didn't deserve. Eventually we all went to work. But I never could understand that "Life is not fair" crap.

If it aint fair for you then it's not fair for me so that makes us all even. THERE NOW ARE YOU FINALLY HAPPY?

 

[Robert A. Green]

Quote from Brass:

What I find most compelling is that you don't seem the slightest bit embarrassed about having written the piece, seeing as how you are bringing it to our attention here.

Wrote this piece from the heart after watching the conventions and right after Obama's speech. Most speakers shared their feelings, so I shared mine. I didn't have my personal editor review it, and my Forbes editor always changes the title.

It's not right or wrong, but how I feel. Others will strongly disagree, while some feel the same way. It's not technical, and I wrote it in simple speak late at night.

Don't criticize my ethics. For personal business, many tax accountants vote Democratic to keep the status quo on a complicated tax code with steep progressive tax rates. They have a good business as a result. Mitt Romney proposes no taxes on investment income for people making under $200,000. That may not be good for my tax business, but it's good for traders.

I've earned my stripes fighting for traders against FTT, with the IRS on traders tax status and MTM losses, and much more.

I didn't post this blog on our company Website because it's my personal politicsl feelings. I am not a member of either party and I like many elements of each of their platforms. Politics don't define me and please don't you either.

Some commenters seem to misread what I wrote. Here's a comment I posted on Barron's this morning.

The Bush-era tax cuts were passed with reconciliation, and wasn't that the reason why they had to sunset after 10 years? Hasn't extending them been in contravention of this law? Personally, I like extension.

Both parties are far apart on tax and deficit reform. They can't cut the deficit. Obama won't close middle class tax loopholes like mortgage deductions. Charities will scream if the rich lose their deduction. Obama will only accept lower corp rates if worldwide income is brought into the tax base. Republicans don't want to cut defense and Dems won't cut entitlements. The tax-protection pledge is the third rail of politics. I still don't see a deal taking shape. Get ready to be held hostage.

 

[logic_man]

Quote from IeatGoldmanSnax:

I'm surprised this is such an active thread. Considering the number of guys on this site who clearly cannot trade, you'd think they'd be more worried about figuring out how to extract money from the market than worrying themselves to death about politics.

I've got the opposite problem. What's the point in trading well if the profits will just go to some parasite, whether that parasite is a welfare bum, a public sector worker or a "green energy" executive?

 

[logic_man]

Quote from oldtime:

you can always tell on TV who is a democrat because they always seem to be concerned that nothing is getting done. I don't know what it is they want done so bad, but they can't conceive of even four years where nothing gets done and just peacefully stays the same. I guess that's why they call themselves progressive, because they always want change.

Even if you are a stalwart conservative who always wants things to be the same as they were when you were growing up, there is no stopping change. It's not like you have to do anything to encourage it. You can't stop it even if you wanted to.

Didn't they already cover all this in "Fiddler on the Roof"?

The first kid I ever met in high school that was politically active had this chip on his shoulder thinking somehow he was not getting what he deserved. The rest of us were all too busy getting what we didn't deserve. Eventually we all went to work. But I never could understand that "Life is not fair" crap.

If it aint fair for you then it's not fair for me so that makes us all even. THERE NOW ARE YOU FINALLY HAPPY?

I don't view politics as being about "change", but about "power". I don't like people, regardless of how well-meaning they say they are, having "legal" power over me and the only institution in society which can have legal power over an individual is the government. Even "economic" power, as held by corporations, ultimately is less dangerous to the individual than legal power is. Anything that augments someone's ability to come to me and say "What you are doing is illegal" is something I don't like. Even tax laws, to some extent, are about saying that if you make a certain amount of money, it is illegal to keep all of it, you have to pay a certain amount to the state.

Before the Nazis started killing Jews, they first made it practically illegal to even be a Jew.

Not to go all Godwin on the topic, but this is why I find legal power so much more dangerous than economic power.

 

[oldtime]

yeah well whatever, Mr. Green has been around longer than I have had a tax problem and when it comes to taxes his opinions are well worth noting. The stupidist mistake I made starting out was not understanding the tax code.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Robert A. Green:

Hasn't extending them been in contravention of this law?

who forced it to happen? republicans. they were willing to cause a financial crash refusing to raise the debt limit unless they got their way.
there was only one grownup at the table. grownups know the us form of government has to have compromise.

 

[Robert A. Green]

Quote from Free Thinker:

who forced it to happen? republicans. they were willing to cause a financial crash refusing to raise the debt limit unless they got their way.
there was only one grownup at the table. grownups know the us form of government has to have compromise.

Both parties have played chicken, held the other hostage and fiddled too much. Read a blog I wrote In Nov. 2011.

Republicans And Democrats Dicker While The Deficit Yawns And Rome Burns - Forbes
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatsp...icker-while-the-deficit-yawns-and-rome-burns/
Or this version http://www.greencompany.com/blog/index.php?postid=132