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Backwards Britain
- Thread starter AbPQuant
- Start date
you're clearly very qualified, as someone else in the thread wrote maybe its just your interview technique.
I know you didn't specify you wanted to work as a trader or a broker but i have worked as both in london and intelligence/ degrees has absolutely no reflection on how someone performs in the job it (probably a quantitative/ price modelling role would work differently i dont know) but from my experience of the finance industry the most successful applicants and employees are the ones that are slightly different to the others- they just stand out. Maybe they didn't even go to uni but set up a small business instead, or maybe went traveling and worked in lots of different cultures successfully, they just have a unique selling point and can sell that to the employer that this is better than a "traditional" applicant and in my experience its these alternative applicants that get picked.
Obviously include the fact you are very successful academically but id recommend highlighting all the other aspects of your life that bring a unique selling point, chances are a lot of the people applying with you to an analyst role will all have good degrees
I know you didn't specify you wanted to work as a trader or a broker but i have worked as both in london and intelligence/ degrees has absolutely no reflection on how someone performs in the job it (probably a quantitative/ price modelling role would work differently i dont know) but from my experience of the finance industry the most successful applicants and employees are the ones that are slightly different to the others- they just stand out. Maybe they didn't even go to uni but set up a small business instead, or maybe went traveling and worked in lots of different cultures successfully, they just have a unique selling point and can sell that to the employer that this is better than a "traditional" applicant and in my experience its these alternative applicants that get picked.
Obviously include the fact you are very successful academically but id recommend highlighting all the other aspects of your life that bring a unique selling point, chances are a lot of the people applying with you to an analyst role will all have good degrees
Quote from AbPQuant:
For over 13 years, I have been trying to find a job in an Investment Bank or Asset Management firm with no success. [...]
I started looking for an Entry Level position, but I was to spend the next 4 years filling shelves in the supermarket.
I'm sorry but you sound like a total idiot. Qualifications only count for anything immediately after you get them. After that it's experience that matters. Who would employ a loser who can only manage to get a job as a Tesco shelf-filler?
You don't have the experience to get the job you're looking for and your whining about it's all the fault of the recruiter, country etc everyone except me suggest you don't have the personality to succeed.
Who would want to recruit a whining, self-absorbed loser like you?
I do slightly suspect that the post is a wind-up...
You just sound like you are whining, like the world owes you a living. As another poster said, you have to be much more aggressive and creative in your job search. These are very competitive positions, with hundreds of applicants for each position. You need to have something unique to stand out and get the hire over the numerous other very well-qualified applicants. You have frittered away 4 years out of uni on a shelf-stacking job, that doesn't exactly show great drive, determination, or initiative. If you had joined an investment club and were able to talk about your picks, how they did etc it might help. If you had written some articles about investing and got them published online, that might help. If you'd done some internships before trying to apply directly, that might help too.
The way to stand out is to be able to demonstrate some ability or achievement that other applicants cannot. That can either be a much deeper knowledge of the field you are applying for, much greater capacity for hard work, very high initiative & creativity, a track record of unusual achievment (doesn't have to be academic) etc. If you don't have something unusual and relevant for your chosen field, then that's the first problem you have to address.
Next, you need to network and start to build up contacts in the industry, whilst developing a reputation as someone who can be relied on to perform. Intern, work short-term on projects and do a damn good job, working harder & longer than anyone else in the office. That's what employers want to see. There are so many job applicants who do nothing special and just seem to be there to pick up a paycheque, that genuine enthusiasm, drive, initiative and sheer hard work stands out a mile. I've worked for a year in the city and believe me it is not as hard as you think to stand out there, *if* you are prepared to really push yourself.
Really I think you need to take a long, hard look at yourself, and ask whether you have really done everything possible to get a position. It sure doesn't sound like it. It's just like trying to become a pro athlete or to succeed in any other ultra-competitive field - you have to raise your game if you want to compete.
Finally, you should reconsider your psychological approach. The vast majority of people who succeed in any competitive field take full responsibility for their successes and failures. They realise that the majority of failures are down to mistakes and oversights they made, and in the few cases where they genuinely did everything possible, yet still failed, then they pick themselves up and try again without complaint. Contrast this to your approach - you complain about the country you are in, the "unfairness" of the firms you are applying to, how your friends got luckier etc - anything and everthing except yourself. This is classic loser/victim mentality, turning blame outwards instead of honestly accepting responsibility for one's own personal failings and underperformance. Look, we all get tough breaks and have to struggle to achieve anything worthwhile. The only difference is in how you respond to it. Do you whine, blame others, and lament your fate? Or do you pick yourself up, dust yourself off, work out what you did wrong and then go and do something about it with twice the determination as before? It's your call.
The way to stand out is to be able to demonstrate some ability or achievement that other applicants cannot. That can either be a much deeper knowledge of the field you are applying for, much greater capacity for hard work, very high initiative & creativity, a track record of unusual achievment (doesn't have to be academic) etc. If you don't have something unusual and relevant for your chosen field, then that's the first problem you have to address.
Next, you need to network and start to build up contacts in the industry, whilst developing a reputation as someone who can be relied on to perform. Intern, work short-term on projects and do a damn good job, working harder & longer than anyone else in the office. That's what employers want to see. There are so many job applicants who do nothing special and just seem to be there to pick up a paycheque, that genuine enthusiasm, drive, initiative and sheer hard work stands out a mile. I've worked for a year in the city and believe me it is not as hard as you think to stand out there, *if* you are prepared to really push yourself.
Really I think you need to take a long, hard look at yourself, and ask whether you have really done everything possible to get a position. It sure doesn't sound like it. It's just like trying to become a pro athlete or to succeed in any other ultra-competitive field - you have to raise your game if you want to compete.
Finally, you should reconsider your psychological approach. The vast majority of people who succeed in any competitive field take full responsibility for their successes and failures. They realise that the majority of failures are down to mistakes and oversights they made, and in the few cases where they genuinely did everything possible, yet still failed, then they pick themselves up and try again without complaint. Contrast this to your approach - you complain about the country you are in, the "unfairness" of the firms you are applying to, how your friends got luckier etc - anything and everthing except yourself. This is classic loser/victim mentality, turning blame outwards instead of honestly accepting responsibility for one's own personal failings and underperformance. Look, we all get tough breaks and have to struggle to achieve anything worthwhile. The only difference is in how you respond to it. Do you whine, blame others, and lament your fate? Or do you pick yourself up, dust yourself off, work out what you did wrong and then go and do something about it with twice the determination as before? It's your call.
Quote from Cutten:
You just sound like you are whining, like the world owes you a living. As another poster said, you have to be much more aggressive and creative in your job search.
Or do you pick yourself up, dust yourself off, work out what you did wrong and then go and do something about it with twice the determination as before? It's your call.
Excellent post and I agree with everything Cutten says. I worked in the city for the last 4 years. I think blaming your inability to find a job on the country you live in is a disgrace, especially when you live in the UK which is a relatively open, market economy. And comments others have made about the number of non-UK nationals at IBs are definitely true BTW.
Your qualifictions do not entitle you to anything (BTW - you don't mention which uni you went to - a 2:1 from Uni of Luton is not the same as from Cambridge, Oxford, Warwick, LSE, etc). They get you an interview which you've had. A grad position at a top IB will recieve 1000+ applicants. Ask yourself why they would hire you over the 999 others. "I've got a 2:1 in a maths/eco degree" will not cut it. Nor will work experience in a supermarket.
Lastly - this does look a wind-up. A first time poster joins up on ET just to start a thread moaning at his "bad luck" or "backwards Britain". yep, exactly the attitude I would look for from an employee. LOL
some fantastic posts above.. cutten put it perfect..
and as Rhino put it, don't expect for banks to beg u to work for them with a 1st/2.1 from luton etc.. these are some of the best (financialy) jobs in the country, and you're not only competing with oxbridge et. al but top unis from all over the world.. i know someone who recently got to a assessment centre at ubs, out of 6, 2 of them were from uk. all had MScs minimum. another friend of mine from cambridge had to try like a dog to land a job (after getting tons of rejections).. another friend of mine put himself into 30k debt to pay for his studies, and u didnt do ur msc cus it's expensive!? there are loans etc. for these type of studies..
Quiet1 what do u now? u work for urself? trade? IT?
and as Rhino put it, don't expect for banks to beg u to work for them with a 1st/2.1 from luton etc.. these are some of the best (financialy) jobs in the country, and you're not only competing with oxbridge et. al but top unis from all over the world.. i know someone who recently got to a assessment centre at ubs, out of 6, 2 of them were from uk. all had MScs minimum. another friend of mine from cambridge had to try like a dog to land a job (after getting tons of rejections).. another friend of mine put himself into 30k debt to pay for his studies, and u didnt do ur msc cus it's expensive!? there are loans etc. for these type of studies..
Quiet1 what do u now? u work for urself? trade? IT?
Thanks very much for all your advice. I will try and answer some of the questions here. I am of African origin.
I am very much aware of the competition in the financial sector. That was why I wanted to study an MA in Finance and Investment after my BA Economics. I applied for a grant but was rejected. I applied for a loan, also rejected. I wrote to various investment banks worldwide for sponsorship, nothing. The MA course at that time was one of the best with Nomura sponsoring the Portfolio Management. It was a missed opportunity but I did all I could do.
When I was filling shelves, I was doing a lot of private research. I was paying money to use the library at the London School of Economics. I was also looking for a professional job. I was not going to sit at home or sign on unemployment benefit until I get my dream job. I had to take what was on offer. Besides I had to bills to pay.
I can't afford to be arrogant because I have got nothing. When I do manage to get an interview, they seem to be well impressive. I always get the feeling right away there will be a second interview .The problem is they just seems reluctant to take it further after that. UBS told me we are not going to offer you the job now and tell us latter that you are going to Deutsche Bank. I assured them how working there will be a dream. What happened?
I had an interview with BGC International part of the Cantor group last October. Another great interview. They came back saying I was too good for the role (Static Data). They had on their website they were looking to attract the best talents.
My work experience is with market data vendors. Well known to the financial markets. Operations department in Investment Banks and Asset Management require such professionals. I think with my experience in this field, (over 5 years) and my qualification it shouldn't be too difficult to get something.
Another example is Northern Trust. I have been applying for a job with them for over two years, but I have never once received an acknowledgement. The job description read to "validate date received from data vendors", two of which I have worked for.
I just think it is a waste of talent. London is the leading financial centre in the world. It shouldn't be that difficult to get something.
I did work at RBS as an office operative some years ago. An analyst position came up. I applied for it. They gave the job to a young girl. It wasn't uncommon for you to hear "Mummy" "Daddy" because the whole family was working there.
Yes I could trade, but you need money to trade. If you have a few hundred pounds then, there is the fear/ greed factor coming into play. You don't want to lose money but at the same time you are greedy because you want to make as much as possible.
I have continued my research and now have my trading system on collective2.As of now about 64% win rate, $17000 cumulative profit, 3.2:1 win rate, and 5.8% max drawdown. I put my trading system there because it makes me feel good. I don't have the money to trade the signal. I am hoping it could lead to something. I don't know what. I just want to change my life for the better. It just seeems to be taking too long.
I am very much aware of the competition in the financial sector. That was why I wanted to study an MA in Finance and Investment after my BA Economics. I applied for a grant but was rejected. I applied for a loan, also rejected. I wrote to various investment banks worldwide for sponsorship, nothing. The MA course at that time was one of the best with Nomura sponsoring the Portfolio Management. It was a missed opportunity but I did all I could do.
When I was filling shelves, I was doing a lot of private research. I was paying money to use the library at the London School of Economics. I was also looking for a professional job. I was not going to sit at home or sign on unemployment benefit until I get my dream job. I had to take what was on offer. Besides I had to bills to pay.
I can't afford to be arrogant because I have got nothing. When I do manage to get an interview, they seem to be well impressive. I always get the feeling right away there will be a second interview .The problem is they just seems reluctant to take it further after that. UBS told me we are not going to offer you the job now and tell us latter that you are going to Deutsche Bank. I assured them how working there will be a dream. What happened?
I had an interview with BGC International part of the Cantor group last October. Another great interview. They came back saying I was too good for the role (Static Data). They had on their website they were looking to attract the best talents.
My work experience is with market data vendors. Well known to the financial markets. Operations department in Investment Banks and Asset Management require such professionals. I think with my experience in this field, (over 5 years) and my qualification it shouldn't be too difficult to get something.
Another example is Northern Trust. I have been applying for a job with them for over two years, but I have never once received an acknowledgement. The job description read to "validate date received from data vendors", two of which I have worked for.
I just think it is a waste of talent. London is the leading financial centre in the world. It shouldn't be that difficult to get something.
I did work at RBS as an office operative some years ago. An analyst position came up. I applied for it. They gave the job to a young girl. It wasn't uncommon for you to hear "Mummy" "Daddy" because the whole family was working there.
Yes I could trade, but you need money to trade. If you have a few hundred pounds then, there is the fear/ greed factor coming into play. You don't want to lose money but at the same time you are greedy because you want to make as much as possible.
I have continued my research and now have my trading system on collective2.As of now about 64% win rate, $17000 cumulative profit, 3.2:1 win rate, and 5.8% max drawdown. I put my trading system there because it makes me feel good. I don't have the money to trade the signal. I am hoping it could lead to something. I don't know what. I just want to change my life for the better. It just seeems to be taking too long.
Another thing is that I have watch what I say at interviews. I applied for a job at Accenture and I was expressing my enthusiasm with what I was doing with my trading and developing trading systems. They were thinking I was going to steal their clients.
If you mentioned trading they start think ing you will be spending most of the day trading on the internet.
If you mentioned trading they start think ing you will be spending most of the day trading on the internet.
Wow....theres a ton of jobs in London and so many can lead to bigger better positions...sure theres lots of starting positions but you're right there next to the big boys with many firms.
Is there something being left out of this story? Perhaps no work VISA, being 5'3 in height or some other factor....half of my interviews and meetings have taken place off hand in the pub....5 hours of drinkis and general banter with 20 minutes of business.
Even resume aside, if you have a good grasp of the markets and some original ideas of your own you can back up in a healthy debate...many firms will definitely call you back.
Good luck...if not just become a system developer...god knows you've probably got way more experience than most of the typical big names in system development for retail traders.
Just think....500 subscribers worldwide, paying 200 a month per contract traded. Add in the kickbacks from all the brokerage firms where your clients trade = lots of bling and time to pursue your own interests.
Not easy...but definitely worth a try.
Is there something being left out of this story? Perhaps no work VISA, being 5'3 in height or some other factor....half of my interviews and meetings have taken place off hand in the pub....5 hours of drinkis and general banter with 20 minutes of business.
Even resume aside, if you have a good grasp of the markets and some original ideas of your own you can back up in a healthy debate...many firms will definitely call you back.
Good luck...if not just become a system developer...god knows you've probably got way more experience than most of the typical big names in system development for retail traders.
Just think....500 subscribers worldwide, paying 200 a month per contract traded. Add in the kickbacks from all the brokerage firms where your clients trade = lots of bling and time to pursue your own interests.
Not easy...but definitely worth a try.