B Hussein Obama on a downward spiral

Quote from Thunderdog:

Yes, I'm sure it's all Obama and has nothing to do with the crumbling economy and the increasingly negative economic and corporate news that surface almost daily. No doubt, all macroeconomic and corporate information has already been discounted in full since before Obama took office, in accordance with Efficient Market Theory, and everything since then has been nothing but Obama fallout. Yeah, that's the ticket.
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Do you think if Obama cut taxes on everyone the market would be lower, higher or unchanged?

I think it is safe to say and hopefully you can agree with this that a large amount of the markets movement is about the economic news, but also a large amount of it is the fact Obama is not cutting major taxes in times of financial need. In fact the market sees now that Obama plans on raising taxes.

Thunderdog there is just no way you can say that Obama is not somewhat responsible for the psychosis of this market.

In a happy little world Obama's stimulus package would create 3 million jobs and these 3 million people would turn into massive consumers and turn the economy around. All of sudden reality strikes and the market realizes that these 3 million people are going to save the money they earn if the economy is still in the shitter like everyone else which is of course the bottom line problem with this financial crisis. That means that the money will not be spent on the economy and that the economy will continue act as if it never had anything in the first place.

The market begs for tax cuts. Let the heart of the economy run instead of creating some mini society of people who will just save their money once all the stimulus spending is spent.


Once again do you really think 1% of the population can turn the economy around?

By the time 3 million jobs/ 1% of the population is employed from the stimulus we will have still lost 6 million/2% of the entire population's jobs due to businesses being strangled by taxes.

A business is a business is a business.
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

Yes, I'm sure it's all Obama and has nothing to do with the crumbling economy and the increasingly negative economic and corporate news that surface almost daily. No doubt, all macroeconomic and corporate information has already been discounted in full since before Obama took office, in accordance with Efficient Market Theory, and everything since then has been nothing but Obama fallout. Yeah, that's the ticket.
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When Bush was in office you (among others) would have said that the economy is crumbling because of 'Bush's incompetence'. Now that Obama is in office, the crumbling economy has nothing to do with Mr. President but has to do with the negative corporate news? Interesting...
 
Quote from annaland:

When Bush was in office you (among others) would have said that the economy is crumbling because of 'Bush's incompetence'. Now that Obama is in office, the crumbling economy has nothing to do with Mr. President but has to do with the negative corporate news? Interesting...
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Obama is dealing with the fallout of Bush's 8-year frat party, mindless spending without any transparency or accountability, and virtually complete abandonment of regulatory oversight. Are you suggesting that the consequences of the Bush administration's gross misconduct ended when he left office? In due course, there will be time and opportunity to blame Obama for whatever ails you. But not yet.

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/politics_democratic/99253

http://www.cbpp.org/9-27-06tax.htm
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

http://www.cbpp.org/9-27-06tax.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_on_Budget_and_Policy_Priorities
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Yes, the government could lose 4.4 trillion if the Bush Tax cuts would be made permanent. The government!! That is great news! We need the government to become smaller. We need to stop brankrupting our nation. We need to stop stealing money from people poor or rich through taxes. We need to stop printing money which will cause inflation and which will kill the savings of baby boomers.

We need to act conservative because we have spent beyond our means thunderdog.

Your two links only further push the argument of raising taxes in a recession.

Please just answer the question thunderdog. Do you think raising taxes in a recession is a good idea for the economy and for jobs?

The bottom line is that more raising taxes in a recession will hurt the economy.

Massive spending will create inflation which will kill savings and will destroy the dollar.

Cut taxes and cut spending.

Take the chains off the necks of the American people. Let the people who still have jobs breath.

Click on this link because I clicked on yours.
http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/03/01/the_audacity_of_borrowing_obama_budget_edition
 
Quote from NeoRio1:

...Please just answer the question thunderdog. Do you think raising taxes in a recession is a good idea for the economy and for jobs?
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Most people far smarter than you and I are of the view that stimulus spending of one kind or another is essential at this unprecedented time of financial crisis. Spending has to be paid for with taxation of one form or another. The question that remains is whom to tax. The people struggling to make ends meet, or the people who have had the most meaningful tax cuts over the last several years? Remember, tax cuts don't really do the national treasury, or the economy for that matter, any real favors:

http://www.cbpp.org/9-27-06tax.htm

I think that Obama's intended nominal tax cuts to the lower and middle class is more a matter of survival so that families can better make ends meet in these very difficult and uncertain times. And you already know my views about supply side economics, so let's not even go there.
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

Most people far smarter than you and I are of the view that stimulus spending of one kind or another is essential at this unprecedented time of financial crisis. Spending has to be paid for with taxation of one form or another. The question that remains is whom to tax. The people struggling to make ends meet, or the people who have had the most meaningful tax cuts over the last several years? Remember, tax cuts don't really do the national treasury, or the economy for that matter, any real favors:
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Given the amount of printing going on, it seems to me that the income tax system is becoming nothing more than a control mechanism for the government to know what you earn and what you spend "their" money on.

It is implausible to assume that this "debt" could ever be paid off via any tax regime.
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

Spending has to be paid for with taxation of one form or another.
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You know spending isn't mandatory right?

I guess if you passionately believe in green and healthcare spending then I could understand those things being spending goals. I just can't understand them being spending goals during bad economic times.

You or I may want to get that 09 Stang but neither one of us will buy it if we are 50K in debt correct?

This is my main problem with Obama- Irresponsible spending. Honestly it seems like a big gamble when it comes to making those couple million people turn the economy around.
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

Obama is dealing with the fallout of Bush's 8-year frat party, mindless spending without any transparency or accountability, and virtually complete abandonment of regulatory oversight. Are you suggesting that the consequences of the Bush administration's gross misconduct ended when he left office? In due course, there will be time and opportunity to blame Obama for whatever ails you. But not yet.

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/politics_democratic/99253

http://www.cbpp.org/9-27-06tax.htm
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Well then why not attribute Bush's 8 year frat party to Clinton's years of sweeping issues under the rug?

Furthermore, Obama, to my knowledge, has not yet been faced with an unfortunate and tragic situation to which he has had to react, like 9/11. As a matter of fact, most every situation he has had to deal with thus far has not only been anticipated but has been prepped for. Not to mention that his entire campaign was proposed as a type of religion whose follows have now joined the cult. The messiah for this new religion is 'change'. Yet if you ask any one of it's followers what distinct change this really is, no one will give you an answer with substance. Just keep chanting 'change' and you'll soon see that the sky is the limit.
 
No, Obama has not faced a 9/11, and so he has not over reacted and abused the American people in order to push his own personal agenda.

It may happen in the future, but right now Obama has not made the same mistakes as Bush made...

Quote from annaland:

Well then why not attribute Bush's 8 year frat party to Clinton's years of sweeping issues under the rug?

Furthermore, Obama, to my knowledge, has not yet been faced with an unfortunate and tragic situation to which he has had to react, like 9/11. As a matter of fact, most every situation he has had to deal with thus far has not only been anticipated but has been prepped for. Not to mention that his entire campaign was proposed as a type of religion whose follows have now joined the cult. The messiah for this new religion is 'change'. Yet if you ask any one of it's followers what distinct change this really is, no one will give you an answer with substance. Just keep chanting 'change' and you'll soon see that the sky is the limit.
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