Ayn Rand Forecasts Economic Disaster from Collectivism & Socialism
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So Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were laissez faire capitalism? You could have fooled me. Without the GSEs being willing to buy all those dodgy mortgages the real estate bubble would never have happened. I think we need more regulation of the financial industry than the objectivists do but I can see that the government had its dirty paws all over the mortgage crisis.
I seem to have lost this thread in the clutter.
Piezoe, I would respond with this: "real capitalists" are socialists. They use capitalism as a vehicle to amass wealth. Then, advocate socialism to protect wealth and eradicate competition. Socialism has no part in free markets. It's the monopoly men who are corrupt. Not the free-enterprise system. Peter Schiff did a nice commentary on monopolies. What's so bad if they offer quality products cheaper than anyone else? If you think about it, there's nothing wrong with it. So long as Government isn't leveraged as a tool to impose and perpetuate their empire. When Government no longer has regulatory power, much of this crony capitalism can't exist. It's lifeblood is the regulatory environment that generates it's profits.
You guys have no understanding of reality. We are a capitalist country. Go start a business and then report back. In business in America it IS survival of the fittess the toughest the profitable and those who just won't quit. The market is very competitive right now in America. There is nothing stopping a business except competition from other business.
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Good points.
Ones does have a choice , in Cuba, cut cane or go to jail
Not a real time quote, but a trend is still a trend. Unleaded gas in Norway costs 2 or 3 times a much as in US. Norway apparently doesnt worry about that. With heavy taxes, they sell it by the liter
Quarter pounder in Norway costs $10-$12;
so 2 or 3 times as much,seems to be a pattern
Go start a business and then report back.
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I have. I started two. First, I started a Digital Record label back in 2000. Thus, I'm very versed on Ecommerce, Web 2.0, Social Media and Entertainment.
I started my own Consulting Company for Private Equity Groups About two years ago.
I have also worked as an Independent contractor for a Three Trading Firms and one Private Equity Firm specializing in OIL Projects.
I will be the first to tell you that we DO NOT LIVE IN A CAPITALISTIC COUNTRY!!!!!!! WE LIVE IN A FREE LOADING, SCUM SUCKING ADHOCK FUCKING SOCIALIST SYSTEM.
There are very few "CAPITALIST" Left in this country. The old guard...the Private Manufacturing Firms are shutting down and relocating. The old guard FARMERS have been forced out or forced to sell to LARGER PUBLIC TRADED FARMS/COMPANIES or Given into GOV SUBs.
WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT HAS FREELOADERS ON THE BOTTOM AND FREE LOADERS ON THE CORPORATE TOP. A BIG FUCKING SHIT SANDWICH THERE SON! I'm a young 40 calling you SON!
You fools need to pull your head outa your arses and stop and think.
Do you know the red tape you have to go through to start up a "Company"? Let alone a Manufacture et all?
The GOV is destroying Private Industry and has taking over the three largest Industries in this Capitalist country... HEALTH CARE, AUTO and BANKING! MF global...hello....that fucking X gov is walking around raising money for OBAMA yet, all assets are frozen for their clients. GM, oooohhhh now the bail out is costing 26.billion of tax money. Oh, yea....lets not get to banking.
Anyone on this Site that believes we live in a Capitalist Nation is a fucking fool. And it's sooo beyond obvious that we do not have free markets as well.
There are some capitalist out there, small business owners et all. But we are being squeezed from both ends....from the Fucking Freeloaders, to the GOV and it's Bailouts of WALLSTREET and PUBLIC INDUSTRY.
"When Government no longer has regulatory power, much of this crony capitalism can't exist. It's lifeblood is the regulatory environment that generates it's profits."
WELL SAID!
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I have. I started two. First, I started a Digital Record label back in 2000. Thus, I'm very versed on Ecommerce, Web 2.0, Social Media and Entertainment.
I started my own Consulting Company for Private Equity Groups About two years ago.
I have also worked as an Independent contractor for a Three Trading Firms and one Private Equity Firm specializing in OIL Projects.
I will be the first to tell you that we DO NOT LIVE IN A CAPITALISTIC COUNTRY!!!!!!! WE LIVE IN A FREE LOADING, SCUM SUCKING ADHOCK FUCKING SOCIALIST SYSTEM.
There are very few "CAPITALIST" Left in this country. The old guard...the Private Manufacturing Firms are shutting down and relocating. The old guard FARMERS have been forced out or forced to sell to LARGER PUBLIC TRADED FARMS/COMPANIES or Given into GOV SUBs.
WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT HAS FREELOADERS ON THE BOTTOM AND FREE LOADERS ON THE CORPORATE TOP. A BIG FUCKING SHIT SANDWICH THERE SON! I'm a young 40 calling you SON!
You fools need to pull your head outa your arses and stop and think.
Do you know the red tape you have to go through to start up a "Company"? Let alone a Manufacture et all?
The GOV is destroying Private Industry and has taking over the three largest Industries in this Capitalist country... HEALTH CARE, AUTO and BANKING! MF global...hello....that fucking X gov is walking around raising money for OBAMA yet, all assets are frozen for their clients. GM, oooohhhh now the bail out is costing 26.billion of tax money. Oh, yea....lets not get to banking.
Anyone on this Site that believes we live in a Capitalist Nation is a fucking fool. And it's sooo beyond obvious that we do not have free markets as well.
There are some capitalist out there, small business owners et all. But we are being squeezed from both ends....from the Fucking Freeloaders, to the GOV and it's Bailouts of WALLSTREET and PUBLIC INDUSTRY.
"When Government no longer has regulatory power, much of this crony capitalism can't exist. It's lifeblood is the regulatory environment that generates it's profits."
WELL SAID!
Emrglobal might need to look into decaf, you're one funny animated dude. For someone wanting to start a small business their isn't much difference from today and twenty years ago. Starting a business is EASY, just get out your check book. What is hard and has always been hard is being successful in business. In some ways it is easier today, twenty five years ago a small business had to in house take care of all state and federal filings and payroll, today a small business has many options to contract those out. Bookkeeping was tedious and time consuming and expensive years ago, it's still a pain in the ass but it is easier today. There are other advantages business has today to make start up easier than it was twenty years ago.
The federal government is a pleasure to deal with compared with some states. State governments and state rules and regulations can be a total pain, but that has nothing to do with the argument here which is about the federal government. From my limited experience Texas is head and shoulders the easiest place to work in. New Mexico is a pain and the great conservative state of Arizona is a total mind fuck with all their rules regulations and taxes.
this thread shows the bankruptcy of the Rand, individualism , laissez-faire Austrian school of junk economics. Turning economics and sociology from a science to a religion (faith based), historical evidence is ignored and replaced with theoretical ideology.
Deregulation of the S&L,s lead to their destruction and a crisis. Enron lobbies to deregulate and privatize California's electrical markets. Prices shot up 4 fold, all the while the freidmanites claim that Environmental Regs are keeping adequate capacity from being built. As it turns out Enron was shutting down plants excessively and making a killing on betting on the rising price. During Enrons control an average of 30% down time of plants VS 10% under regulated times. Derivatives were banned since the depression for good reason, having been a factor in the roaring 20's speculative bubble. The resurgence of derivatives has kept us in an on going financial crisis. These and many others can be seen as a direct cause and effect relationship,but ideologue's will claim well the market wasn't purely free because of the fed or some thing else so there fore we can't blame it on laissez faire.
The New Deal, specifically the lend lease program coincided with the lowest rate of unemployment and the growth of the biggest % of the middle class in recorded history.Yet ideologues claim that it was a disaster and some other reason was the root of prosperity. The notion that WW II brought us out is a popular one,( so basically it wasn't gov spending it was government spending) extremists even believe that only war can save us again. They fail to comprehend that instead of building bombs and tanks , we can build things of permanent value. (roads, power plants factories and other capital goods. Also the dynamics of war have changed and less production is need to create more destruction. tomahawk missile can reach virtually anywhere making heavy infantry almost extinct.
They blame U.S. down fall on socialism ignoring that heavily socialistic countries are always in the top of the standard of living lists without heavy deficits.The excuses are culture, their not purely socialistic so it must be the capitalist element that showers prosperity on them. Another failed argument is that they have resources ignoring the fact that Africa is has the most Nat. resources per capita and has the lowest standard of living. Coincidentally Africa is the most laissez faire continent .
The idea that Greensapn wasn't a Randian because he headed the federal reserve is nonsense. He deregulated the market at every turn.In hie book The Age Of Turbulent Times he says he became fed chairman to destroy the system form the inside. Greensapan stopped the regulation of derivatives and putting them on an exchange keeping them in the dark market.He even thought there to be no need for regulation.
Greenspan: Well, Brooksley, weâre never going to agree on fraud.
Born: What do you mean?
Greenspan: You probably think there should be rules against it.
Born: Well, yes I do.
Greenspan: Well I think the market will figure it out and take care of the fraudsters.
Greenspan was the poster child for Rand.
We also see the misguided notion of the fed being an example of gov failure. The federal reserve act is a shining example of the disaster of privately created money vs gov created money. How can one hold up the fed and our current monetary system as statism. Not to mention that the bulk of our money supply comes from private commercial banks not the fed. Government money as a far better record going to then private created credit.
Their against centralized planning, but indifferent of wealth concentration not realizing that they are one in the same.As wealth is concentrated so is political power and the legal system. From Roman times to feudal Europe to modern day finance, history shows that once these powers are concentrated central planning leaves democratic elected officials and goes to the newly created oligarchy for the benefit if themselves.
Starting with the first modern nation state to present, no nation has become an economic power without domestic policy to cultivate,protect, and nurture their infant industries. countries that do not, are considered third world raw resources extraction economies.
The biggest fail is the notion of individualism, that everything they have is a direct result of their effort. As if being born a crack baby requires the same amount of effort to succeed in life as a child of a billionaire. What you were born into is 80% of the input that determines your future. Claiming that it was "all my doing" shows the lack of realism and humbleness of humanity. The individualism that plagues this school defies all logic and common sense. Would steve jobs have bothered with the Ipod if there wasn't an already made middle class to buy them? He didn't sell many in Somalia and he didn't single handedly create his consumer base, so is all his success really all his doing?If you really don't think you benefit from the masses going to collage and getting degrees Take out of your house every thing you didn't build, design, and engineer and see what you have left. A well paid highly educated society benefits everyone and is the bases for modern civilized life. Not some fanatical, religious ,ideologue' that is ayn rand nonsense.
Deregulation of the S&L,s lead to their destruction and a crisis. Enron lobbies to deregulate and privatize California's electrical markets. Prices shot up 4 fold, all the while the freidmanites claim that Environmental Regs are keeping adequate capacity from being built. As it turns out Enron was shutting down plants excessively and making a killing on betting on the rising price. During Enrons control an average of 30% down time of plants VS 10% under regulated times. Derivatives were banned since the depression for good reason, having been a factor in the roaring 20's speculative bubble. The resurgence of derivatives has kept us in an on going financial crisis. These and many others can be seen as a direct cause and effect relationship,but ideologue's will claim well the market wasn't purely free because of the fed or some thing else so there fore we can't blame it on laissez faire.
The New Deal, specifically the lend lease program coincided with the lowest rate of unemployment and the growth of the biggest % of the middle class in recorded history.Yet ideologues claim that it was a disaster and some other reason was the root of prosperity. The notion that WW II brought us out is a popular one,( so basically it wasn't gov spending it was government spending) extremists even believe that only war can save us again. They fail to comprehend that instead of building bombs and tanks , we can build things of permanent value. (roads, power plants factories and other capital goods. Also the dynamics of war have changed and less production is need to create more destruction. tomahawk missile can reach virtually anywhere making heavy infantry almost extinct.
They blame U.S. down fall on socialism ignoring that heavily socialistic countries are always in the top of the standard of living lists without heavy deficits.The excuses are culture, their not purely socialistic so it must be the capitalist element that showers prosperity on them. Another failed argument is that they have resources ignoring the fact that Africa is has the most Nat. resources per capita and has the lowest standard of living. Coincidentally Africa is the most laissez faire continent .
The idea that Greensapn wasn't a Randian because he headed the federal reserve is nonsense. He deregulated the market at every turn.In hie book The Age Of Turbulent Times he says he became fed chairman to destroy the system form the inside. Greensapan stopped the regulation of derivatives and putting them on an exchange keeping them in the dark market.He even thought there to be no need for regulation.
Greenspan: Well, Brooksley, weâre never going to agree on fraud.
Born: What do you mean?
Greenspan: You probably think there should be rules against it.
Born: Well, yes I do.
Greenspan: Well I think the market will figure it out and take care of the fraudsters.
Greenspan was the poster child for Rand.
We also see the misguided notion of the fed being an example of gov failure. The federal reserve act is a shining example of the disaster of privately created money vs gov created money. How can one hold up the fed and our current monetary system as statism. Not to mention that the bulk of our money supply comes from private commercial banks not the fed. Government money as a far better record going to then private created credit.
Their against centralized planning, but indifferent of wealth concentration not realizing that they are one in the same.As wealth is concentrated so is political power and the legal system. From Roman times to feudal Europe to modern day finance, history shows that once these powers are concentrated central planning leaves democratic elected officials and goes to the newly created oligarchy for the benefit if themselves.
Starting with the first modern nation state to present, no nation has become an economic power without domestic policy to cultivate,protect, and nurture their infant industries. countries that do not, are considered third world raw resources extraction economies.
The biggest fail is the notion of individualism, that everything they have is a direct result of their effort. As if being born a crack baby requires the same amount of effort to succeed in life as a child of a billionaire. What you were born into is 80% of the input that determines your future. Claiming that it was "all my doing" shows the lack of realism and humbleness of humanity. The individualism that plagues this school defies all logic and common sense. Would steve jobs have bothered with the Ipod if there wasn't an already made middle class to buy them? He didn't sell many in Somalia and he didn't single handedly create his consumer base, so is all his success really all his doing?If you really don't think you benefit from the masses going to collage and getting degrees Take out of your house every thing you didn't build, design, and engineer and see what you have left. A well paid highly educated society benefits everyone and is the bases for modern civilized life. Not some fanatical, religious ,ideologue' that is ayn rand nonsense.