Average of 5 pt a day trading ES realistic?

[austinp]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

I don't know about pure scalpers, but anyone else who trades the ES will know that thinking about average points per day is the wrong approach. I see a lot of newbies or vendors talking about how the key is to make a nice steady one or two points a day, but that is exactly backwards. The way you make money is to grind it out day after day, breakeven, small loss, small profits, then a couple of days a month you hit a big trend day and bank a lot of jack. You'll probably do better if you only trade on the days that set up as possible trend days, but most of us are sitting there in front of the screen and will trade anyway.

As I recall Marty Schwartz in his book Pit Bull made the point that he made the vast majority of his money on 20 or so days a year.

To do this, you have to have the balls to hang on to your big winners. You also have to avoid getting chewed up during the flat periods, or else you won't be around when that big day hits.

I've said the same general thing for several years now.

imo the "best" way to trade for max overall gains is hunt the trend sessions, swinging for bigger directional profits. and that remains my personal favorite way to manage trades... hold for gold.

but... and this is a very big BUT... most aspiring emini traders can't = won't do that. No way, no how, never gonna happen. The human nature urge to "scalp" and avoid risk and trade not-too-lose is far too deeply ingrained.

Inside our electronic world of clickitis-infected emini traders, swing trades for distance are eschewed. Practically no one wants to do it. Way before a trader grows the balls big enough to hang onto undulating winners, they will succomb to human emotions = urges and fail.

That human nature fact is not lost upon the professional marketing firms... those who charge $5,000 to $7,000 or even $10,000+ for "education" on how to scalp the emini /FX markets. You know the ones: they have seven-figure advertising budgets and high-pressure sales tactics.

That collective group dangles the carrot most aspiring traders want to hear. Need to hear. Suggestions otherwise get drowned out from selective hearing = human desire.

Moral to the story? Theoretically, swinging for directional moves is where biggest profit potential exists. Realistically, no one has the fortitude to learn that AND execute such.

Target-shooting. +5pts ES per day (or whatever) and quit. Repeat the process tomorrow. Don't dig big holes along the way.

That approach works, too

 

[stock777]

Anyone making money worth talking about is trading huge size, and not 1 in 1000 are EVER gonna get there.

no matter who they pay for the holy

+5 a day , sounds so reasonable and humble. almost zen like.

 

[southbeach4me]

Its funny how the newbs always try to justify how many ES points they may be able to capture in a session. Absolutely the wrong and most disastrous way to think.

 

[austinp]

Quote from stock777:

Anyone making money worth talking about is trading huge size, and not 1 in 1000 are EVER gonna get there.

yeah, because it would really suck to be those traders mired in the middle of your definition for success. I mean, someone making $60k to $200k annual probably ain't trading huge size.

guess they might as well go out there in today's work force and get themselves a real nice j.o.b.

meanwhile, traders picking off +5pts here and there during the month might just find themselves above the median income measure for U.S. workforce. picture that

 

[stock777]

When I see a 1-5 lot trader banking 60k-200k a year , and they can prove it, then we can talk.

Till then, its marketing hype.

 

[Lojanica]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

I don't know about pure scalpers, but anyone else who trades the ES will know that thinking about average points per day is the wrong approach. I see a lot of newbies or vendors talking about how the key is to make a nice steady one or two points a day, but that is exactly backwards. The way you make money is to grind it out day after day, breakeven, small loss, small profits, then a couple of days a month you hit a big trend day and bank a lot of jack. You'll probably do better if you only trade on the days that set up as possible trend days, but most of us are sitting there in front of the screen and will trade anyway.

As I recall Marty Schwartz in his book Pit Bull made the point that he made the vast majority of his money on 20 or so days a year.

To do this, you have to have the balls to hang on to your big winners. You also have to avoid getting chewed up during the flat periods, or else you won't be around when that big day hits.

Pure effin' gold.....

 

[austinp]

Quote from Lojanica:

Pure effin' gold.....

Read Pit Bull again. Marty talked about making the register ring, over and over again. Small gains

His big days included -$800,000 draw while his wife shopped for clothing bargains

Anyone here up for an -$800,000 day?

 

[austinp]

Quote from stock777:

When I see a 1-5 lot trader banking 60k-200k a year , and they can prove it, then we can talk.

Till then, its marketing hype.

So it's either 1-lot or 1,000-lot in your fairy tale world? Interesting

when I see a blotter posted somewhere that proves you ever took a single trade in your life, then we can talk. till then, it's just chatroom addict hype

 

[stock777]

 

[nonlinear5]

Quote from nicbizz:

I'm wondering though, if expecting an average of 5pt a day from trading ES (net of stop loss), is something realistic, or I'm just dreaming too much.

Well, the ES margin is about $2,800. You are looking to make 8.92% daily profit. That means is that you are planning to turn $2,800 into about 6 trillion in one year. That's about half the U.S. gross domestic product.