Average of 5 pt a day trading ES realistic?

Take a look at trading ES inside a fixed range covered by options.
The most significant blow up risks are mitigated but you must carefully manage your hedge and execute with precision.
 
Assuming consistently, even throughout low volatility.

5 points a day average account to approximately 100 points a month,
not realistic.

Maybe the top 25 traders in the universe. Just consider how much more than 25 Jackpots and lotteries are paid worldwide on a monthly basis and that never seems to happen to the common person. Guess which one is harder to achieve.

Possible, but not realistic.
 
Quote from nicbizz:

I've been involved in some way with the investing world for the past 10 years, and while I've had experience in swing trading (with mixed results), I realized that I'm less keen about the stress of holding overnight positions as I got older!

So, here I am thinking about compressing my trading time frame, and keeping it to within the market hours aka day trading. I've read through loads of threads here - the Journals, Geez's especially, were incredibly helpful - and I've formulated what I believe to be a decent strategy based on price action.

I'm wondering though, if expecting an average of 5pt a day from trading ES (net of stop loss), is something realistic, or I'm just dreaming too much. Current volatility, I can see it doable, but I'm hoping to hear from veterans here who've been through all kinds of market conditions, and wouldnt mind sharing a bit of wisdom on how hard/impossible my expectations are.

For those who are wondering why this is important, it is a matter of opportunity costs for me. Unless I can make a fairly decent living out of trading, then perhaps I should consider an alternate career and make better use of the capital that I have.

Thanks in advance!
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5 points can have a lot of meanings. If you gain 105 and lose 100 points, then your expectancy stinks.

Also, is this before or after costs? If you scalp all day long for quarter points, you can show 5 points on paper and almost nothing in your bank account - ie, commission, slippage, risk and other costs.
 
Quote from spd:

Trading is extremely difficult, but that just isnt true.

If you are trader with an edge who can't net 1 point/week then you arent a trader and you dont have an edge. You are a mouse clicker and a hoper.
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Im talking about averages. Ofcourse you can net 1 point a week but doing so consistently even 1 point a week is hard. And most newbies think they can do 1 point a day easy.

Fact is even if you have an edge you dont get trade consistently every single week, so then 0 points a week is very possible. It all depends on the edge.
 
5 is ambitious but it depends on the trading approach. If you ask me whether you can make 5 points day trading I would bet the farm against anyone claiming such thing but broken down by day swing trades are possible, obviously depending on volatility and what approach you use. But almost not doable on a consistent basis.

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

If you are asking is it realistic to net 5 points per ES contract per day, the answer is no.

Breaking even would be a realistic goal.
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Quote from nicbizz:

I'm wondering though, if expecting an average of 5pt a day from trading ES (net of stop loss), is something realistic, or I'm just dreaming too much. Current volatility, I can see it doable, but I'm hoping to hear from veterans here who've been through all kinds of market conditions, and wouldnt mind sharing a bit of wisdom on how hard/impossible my expectations are.

Thanks in advance!
More...

Developing traders always fixate on max number of points or dollars per contract. They strive towards maximizing more and greater returns over time, usually reaching what veterans know to be ridiculous levels or projection. Why is that?

Because developing traders cannot see past trading one or two contracts. They let the current state of hesitancy (fear) in trading multiple contract size hold them back from those thoughts... so they turn attention towards how many max index points are possible with tiny size.

If a skilled ES trader targets a daily goal of +4pts profit using a -8pt max loss shutdown scale, said trader should find something similar to these results:

ten sessions: +4pts achieved
five sessions: greater than +4pts
five sessions: less than +4pts

That trading business management approach focuses on wresting a reasonable amount of profit each day as the primary objective. Done right with a bonafide technical edge, end result should be half the days reaching objectives while the other half wash each other out.

Bottom line is a net average of something near +2pts ES daily over the course of a calendar month. Do that for awhile, then add size.

Who here would not be content to book +40pts ES monthly?

**

Veteran traders think in terms of consistency, smooth equity curves, added size. Max points and personal record events are sexy, but they go hand in hand with bigger drawdowns in the process of achieving such.

Evolving traders dream of big point's results all the time, but block out thoughts of correspondingly larger loss. Evolving traders think = dream it's possible to have nil or no loss and all large gains. But the natural see-saw of this profession doesn't work that way. Grandslams and multiple strikeouts cannot be separated.

So imo averaging +5pts ES per day over any given year or years of time isn't realistic. But breaking things down and averaging +2pts or even +1pt with reasonable trade size is possible.

Who needs to find another profession if you can reach the stage of averaging even +10pts ES per month turning twenty-lot trades? That's +$10k per month on average of +1/2pt ES daily. Good luck stepping into a secure profession that pays similar in today's world :)
 
The money / points will not be an issue if you "grade" yourself on how "well" you traded each day.

Sometimes I trade very "well" and lose money or break-even. Sometimes I trade "well" and make a lot of money.

By "well" I'm talking about recognizing what the market is doing and then following all of your disciplines. You can never know how much the market will give you. Focus on trading "well" and you can become a very successful trader.
 
I don't know about pure scalpers, but anyone else who trades the ES will know that thinking about average points per day is the wrong approach. I see a lot of newbies or vendors talking about how the key is to make a nice steady one or two points a day, but that is exactly backwards. The way you make money is to grind it out day after day, breakeven, small loss, small profits, then a couple of days a month you hit a big trend day and bank a lot of jack. You'll probably do better if you only trade on the days that set up as possible trend days, but most of us are sitting there in front of the screen and will trade anyway.

As I recall Marty Schwartz in his book Pit Bull made the point that he made the vast majority of his money on 20 or so days a year.

To do this, you have to have the balls to hang on to your big winners. You also have to avoid getting chewed up during the flat periods, or else you won't be around when that big day hits.
 
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